On April 27th, of 2020, a discussion sprung up on Twitter about the notes. The following is compiled from Lt. Tim McMillan’s Twitter feed. Tim has done some great work reporting on the Tic Tac UFO case and the Pentagon’s UFO and paranormal programs known as AAWSAP and AATIP.
You can read the two excellent articles Tim wrote for “Popular Mechanics” at these two links:
I’ve taken the text from Tim’s tweets about the Wilson/Davis notes to make it easier to read/follow and I’m posting them here. Questions from others are in bold. As you’ll see, Tim was very clear that he doesn’t support what his BAASS source told him as fact. He was just sharing the information as was told to him.
Davis’ attorney has advised him not to speak on the memo and Adm. Wilson, won’t discuss whether he met with Davis, but denies having ever looked for UFO SAPs. The meeting was *allegedly* about crashed UFO stuff that was transferred to Lockheed Martin by the AEC (Atomic Energy Commission ~Joe) in 1977.
@NoisyNinja2: Why would a man need a lawyer over such a memo?
That would be a question for Davis, but indeed that’s what he told me when I asked. Hypothetically, you can be held liable if you breach an agreement of confidentiality under Supreme Court ruling – Cohen v. Cowles Media Co., 501 U.S. 663 (1991).
For the sake of clarity, everything I mentioned about Lockheed, AEC, etc. *DID NOT* come from Davis. Furthermore, I stress, I consider all of that other stuff to be a cool story at this point. I don’t want anyone to think I’m supporting it as fact or encouraging UFO myths.
NOW, knowing the memo came out of Edgar Mitchell’s archives to Grant Cameron and beyond doesn’t prove *anything* in the above mentioned tweet is 100% legit.
Allegedly, AEC always had the materials going back to 1947, because it was and (as the DOE (Department of Energy ~Joe)) still is the most compartmentalized and secure branch of the USG. Allegedly the fundamental understanding of any highly advanced craft lies directly on understanding the energy source, hence why AEC/DOE would be the principle jurisdiction over said alleged materials. It was supposedly transferred in 1977, because Carter wanted to make AEC a federal branch (which he did in 1979) and this would have given USG oversight.
The person who told me all of this was someone who worked for BAASS and AAWSAP, who only wished to speak on the background. Hence, why I’ve never really discussed it. At the moment, it’s just an interesting story, amongst many interesting UFO stories.
But allegedly this was what Wilson would have been denied access. It was exactly like AAWSAP, a program held in private proprietary discretion.
@ddeanjohnson asked a question: “Well, if that story happened to be true, who, then, would actually own the purported UFO stuff now, hypothetically speaking?”
Hypothetically, Lockheed Martin. Allegedly, the stuff was put up and not touched going back to the early 1960s when it was decided scientific understanding was too far behind to be able to make use of the materials. Allegedly, that’s the crux of AAWSAP. A scientific intelligence assessment of current and projected scientific and technological innovations. Supposedly, there was someone at Lockheed working with BAASS to try and restart any analysis of supposed materials.
100% the person worked for BAASS and AAWSAP. Now, do I believe everything about AEC, Lockheed, etc. as being fact? No… simply because beyond their account to me, there’s no other supporting evidence.
I think no matter who said it, with a story that grandiose, it would be foolish to accept it as being true without a *significant* amount of supporting evidence. Which is why I keep stressing, I’m the one who heard it and I still think it’s just a cool story or myth.
It’s a catch 22 to share “interesting stories” I hear. On one hand someone else could help prove or disprove them. On the other, some might just add more myth to it and before you know it, there’s 10 books and a documentary out on it. Still proving nothing.
I asked, “Tim, maybe I missed it but have you ever spoken with Admiral Wilson? If so, can you say when and where and can you expand on what was discussed at all?”
No, Wilson didn’t want to talk whatsoever.
I shared all of Tim’s Davis/Wilson/BAASS-related, tweets with Dr. Davis, just to keep him in the loop about what was being said. And I gave him the chance to correct the record if there were any errors. I didn’t expect a response. But on the morning of April 30th, I received this:
On my behalf, you are authorized to write:
(1) that per Tim McMillan’s Twitter posts per the leak from Ed Mitchell’s estate of the so-called Wilson notes, I did not have a lawyer nor did I consult one. I consulted my supervisor and a federal law enforcement/national security professional (who happens to have a law degree but doesn’t practice law) on the perils of publicly commenting on documents allegedly containing classified info., while one has active clearances.
(2) McMillan’s BAASS source (an alleged former BAASS employee) is quite ill-informed and not in the know about the history of the legacy UAP recovery and reverse engineering studies program, because this particular topic is way above the pay grade and need-to-know access of the alleged former BAASS employee. This alleged former BAASS employee either fabricated his/her claims about Lockheed Aircraft Co., the AEC/DoE, and Jimmy Carter from out of whole cloth or he/she is reporting someone else’s uninformed opinions or he/she is reporting very old, unfounded rumors that circulate widely within UFOlogy.
Like the number five and Monty’s Python’s Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, is Lockheed right out, as far as being home to the Holy Grail of UFOlogy? While the carefully worded statement by Davis doesn’t confirm the veracity of the documents, I’m glad I was able to get more than a “no comment” from him. But that no comment may have more meaning than we realize. More on that later. And for the people surprised at his mention of the “legacy UAP recovery and reverse engineering studies program” without using the word “alleged”? You need to go back and listen again to some of Dr. Davis’ older interviews, a good portion of which I transcribed in Part 2.
Reporter George Knapp: “It suggests there might be other studies and programs that might shed light on this?”
Harry Reid: “Other programs that have been done and information they have, including different pieces of evidence.”
Love Reid’s smile after that last sentence. Does he know about the crash retrieval program? I think that’s a good assumption. But when he said “I feel it would be, from a Congressional standpoint, it would affect my credibility if I started talking about everything I know,” Senator Reid may have been referring to the crash retrieval program and the abilities of The Visitors. The latter was allegedly briefed to members of our government. Read the leaked slide/graphic and entire article by Jay. If the occupants or intelligence behind the UFOs (referred to as “an enemy”) can do all of those things and it can be proven, not only would it affect Reid’s credibility but it would shake the entire world to its core! And I think that’s an understatement.
“John Podesta said publicly, the American people can handle the truth. My question would be…if you don’t know what the truth is, how do you know they can handle it? What if they’re flesh-eating arachnids or something? Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.”
[Mellon] declined to comment on “Core Secrets.” But he couldn’t resist weighing in on a scenario that a single defense contractor could have blocked Wilson’s access to an SAP.
“When we do ambitious stuff at DoD, there is never, ever only one contractor, a lead contractor, sure, but always a consortium or subs under a lead,” he stated in an email. “Perhaps grounds to doubt the veracity of the document then, eh?
Wilson said he found four SAPs who referred him to the corporation that has the intact craft. We don’t know if they were run by other corporations/contractors but Wilson explained that those four “were part of it – in different compartments, placed in different layers of the compartment’s pyramid, split up to do different things or parts of it. They’re all in same record group but their connection to each other is not obvious (typical thing but unusual in records).”
I will say this: If it were me, and I were trying to bury it deep, I’d take it outside government oversight entirely and place it in a compartment as a new entity within an existing defense company and manage it as what we call an “IRAD” or “Independent Research and Development Activity.”
An IRAD is way for companies to conduct research and development on projects of potential interest to the DoD and get reimbursed for any costs related to overhead. The part about burying it deep, outside of government oversight in an existing defense company, sounds like what Wilson described.
One other quote of interest from the Kean interview dealt with the heart of the matter: crashed and recovered UFOs. Mellon threw some cold water on the idea.
I’d love to believe we have a crashed saucer somewhere, but I’ve never seen anything remotely supportive of such incredible claims.
I find it hard to imagine something as explosive as recovered alien technology remaining under wraps for decades. So while I have no reason to believe there is any recovered alien technology… (Weird end to quote because Mellon went on to say, if were him, he’d bury it deep, outside government, in an existing defense company. I used that quote earlier. ~Joe)
Does Mellon still believe that or has he come across information that suggests otherwise? On June 5th, 2019, Mellon was a guest on “The Fox News Breakdown” and the subject of SAPs came up again.
Narration: Area 51 isn’t just something in a movie. He’s been there. And it was part of his job as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, to know what happens there. The secrets kept there.
Harris Faulkner: But everyone wants to know if there’s aliens like in Independence Day? Are there aliens floating in a tank?
Christopher Mellon: Right. You know, that’s a great…what I will tell you about that is that…and I don’t think I wanna go beyond this. There are eight individuals in Congress…
Harris Faulkner: I’m not trying to get you in trouble but I wanna know. (Laughs)
Christopher Mellon: I understand. And, you know, there are certain…I’ll be as forthcoming as I can. Transparent as I can. What I will say on that particular topic is that there are eight individuals in Congress, stipulated by law: Section 119 of Title 10, specifically, who can ask that question and get…and deserve and are entitled to a straight answer from the Department of Defense.
Harris Faulkner: Really?
Christopher Mellon: I used to help prepare the briefing book that went to these eight members. So, by law, even the most sacred and tightly held special access programs are required by law to be shared with these eight members. Now they don’t have to take the briefings, and they often don’t, because they’re doing other things and they’re very busy and it’s rather technical and it doesn’t necessarily advance their careers. But that information is available to them. And they are entitled to ask and get a straight answer.
Harris Faulkner: So I don’t have to be president to know this stuff? All I have to do is be one of these eight members of Congress?
Christopher Mellon: In theory.
Senator Reid was part of the entitled, Gang of Eight. In my blog/transcript, I made a big deal about the “in theory” part of Mellon’s answer. And I also think “deserve” and “entitled” stick out, too. As in…
Yes, they should be able to get that information, in theory, and deserve it and are entitled to it. But in reality, some of these programs are buried so deep, you’ll never know about them unless someone in the know informs you and tells you where to look. I reached out to a government insider to see if they could shed some light on the issue.
“Various people within the United States government, in positions of oversight and who you would think had access to all UAP programs, did not find the UAP crash retrieval program when they looked because they never knew of its existence. I, and others in my circle, have discussed the topic with them of how one cannot find waived-in acknowledged SAPs that operate outside of Section 119 of Title 10. In fact, a DoD office can create a shell company and then transfer funds to it under an unremarkable commercial defense services contract. Then that shell company turns around and gives a subcontract to a third-party aerospace/defense firm that hosts a waived-unacknowledged SAP that operates outside of Sect. 119 of Title 10. This usually hides (making the audit trail terminate at the shell company) the flow of money going to the third party company that’s running a waived-unacknowledged SAP where a UAP crash retrieval program is hidden.
That source just explained what’s going on and how the UAP crash retrieval program is hidden. It’s possible others have described that sleight of hand elsewhere but I’ve never heard it before. Hopefully, readers can chime in and let me know on Twitter. Folks like Admiral Wilson can’t find programs like that unless someone gives them the code words and they get help from others who can point them in the right direction. Of course, as Wilson showed, even if you find the culprits, it doesn’t mean you’re getting the grand tour that includes access to the flying saucer museum.
On June 12th of 2019, Former Senator Harry Reid was the guest on KNPR’s “State of Nevada” with Joe Schoenmann (JS). After my March interview with the Senator, I was disappointed in myself for not doing a better job when I had the chance, so I emailed, tweeted and called-in with questions I should have asked him two months prior. Reid made it clear the key to finding a hidden SAP is knowing it exists in the first place. Schoemann my emailed question to Reid.
Screen shot of my email to KNPR.
JS: “Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, Chris Mellon, on the radio, said there are eight members of of Congress who should be given access to some of the most sacred and special held Special Access Programs. Is that’s true and we’re one of the eight, were you ever denied access to one of these programs related to UFOs?”
Senator Harry Reid (HR): Under the law, the eight leaders of Congress, House and Senate, are entitled to be given information that others don’t get. That’s the law. And it’s up to the administration to determine what they feel they need to give us. I think that’s appropriate. As to whether or not they should give us everything? My past experience is that even though the eight are usually very, very creible and honest and try not to blab things out to the press, sometimes it happens. So the adminstration has to be very careful what they give us.
JS: Were you ever denied access when you wanted it?
HR: Well, but the point is, you don’t know if you were denied access unless you know what you’re looking for.
JS: I’ve just got the feeling that you know a lot more about these things than you can probably ever talk about. Am I right?
HR: I was very fortunate, being the leader, that I was entitled to be briefed by the head of the CIA on a very frequent basis. A couple of times a month, I would meet in a secure place in the Capitol and I would meet with the head of the CIA and learn about what was going on with whatever he wanted to talk about and questions I had. So that was very enlightenng.
I also called-in a question.
Caller Joe Murgia: Senator! Luis Elizondo recently said on a news program that, based on his decades of experience working for the government, he believes that the United States government has material from a UFO in its possession. If that’s true, do you think the American people deserve to know this? And if it’s locked up in a Special Access Program, how do we get access to it? And have you ever learned anything about this?
HR: I hate to throw a wet blanket on this, Joe, but I don’t believe the United States has material from an Unidentified Flying Obeject. I just don’t believe that. I don’t know who you said, said that but maybe they were misundertsood because I simply don’t believe it.
I followed up by saying, “Who said that? Luis Elizondo, the head of the Pentagon’s UFO program!” But they had already cut off my audio so I don’t think Reid heard it. He seemed to understand that a hidden SAP would never be found unless you knew what to look for and where to look but then threw cold water on the idea that we had debris from a UFO. Not sure what he did or didn’t know at that point because on Episode 6 of “Unidentified,” that aired on July 5th, he sure seemed to suggest we had different “pieces” of something. Then again, that episode wouldn’t air for another twenty-three days so maybe he was just abiding by his NDA with History Channel when he answered my question on KNPR?
On that final episode (starts at 26:17) of Season One of the History Channel docu-series, “Unidentified,” Former Senator Majority leader, Harry Reid, was shown having a conversation with Christopher Mellon of “To The Stars Academy of Arts and Science.”
Mellon: Bob Bigelow recently said on national TV (“60 Minutes”) that he absolutely believes, not only that alien life exists, but that aliens are here… that aliens are visiting Earth. You share that view?”
Reid: “I feel it would be, from a Congressional standpoint, it would affect my credibility if I started talking about everything I know.”
What would affect his credibility so much that he wouldn’t comment on it? Was Reid referencing UFO crash/recovery, Unacknowledged Special Access Programs? During my interview with Reid in April of 2019, the last question I asked him was about other UFO programs.
Murgia: There are rumors that there are other UFO programs. You think they would be located in Special Access Programs, where the public has no access to them?
Reid: They would have to be.
Reid helped create AAWSAP, the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program, which morphed into AATIP, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. At one point, Reid tried to get AATIP upgraded to not only a Special Access Program (SAP) but one with a status above a conventional SAP. In a letter to Deputy Secretary of Defense, William Lynn, Reid wrote:
I require your assistance in establishing a Restricted Special-Access-Program with a Bigoted Access List for special portions of the AATIP.
Even the use of conventional SAP protocols will not adequately ensure that all aspects of the project are properly secured.
Why the need for such extreme measures? Was it to protect the information AATIP collected or was there another reason that’s related to the claims made in Wilson/Davis? Were they trying to gain access to the crash retrieval program?
I spoke with a former military man mentioned in the Wilson/Davis documents who, in theory, also should have had access to every SAP during a specific portion of his time with the government. He 100% interacted with Admiral Wilson. He agreed to let me write about our phone call on the condition that I not name or identify him. He wouldn’t let me record the call so I took notes and typed them into my laptop as soon as I hung up. I only used a few quotes and the rest are paraphrased but accurate.
My first question was, “Do you know about the Wilson/Davis documents?” He quickly responded with a terse, “No!” and I thought he was going to hang up. I asked him if he was interested in the subject of UFOs and that seemed to loosen him up. “Like many people, I had an interest in the subject since I was a child.”
He believes if there was a UFO program, he and his colleagues would have found it among the various SAPs. He/they never saw anything like that.
I asked him if it was possible there was a program he/they didn’t know about? He immediately contradicted himself and said yes and added that there may be levels of secrecy people don’t know about.
Need-to-know is first and foremost. Without it, you can’t have access to the programs you know about and the programs you don’t know about.
He once flew into Area 51 and said there was nothing unusual.
He knew a civil servant who worked on Project Blue Book. He thought the person was going to tell him there was nothing to it but that’s not what happened. When I asked him if he could tell me what they told him, he said, “No. It’s been a long time. I can’t remember.”
He wondered what the point was of announcing UFOs are real. What will that change? I mentioned the benefit of non-polluting technology and he was having none of it. He said, “If the U.S. has alien tech, and I’m not saying that we do, we wouldn’t share it. No country would because of the technology. You want to keep it for yourself.”
He was 100% anti-Disclosure. His thoughts…
Why make the knowledge that we’re not alone known to the world? What’s the motive? Who would want to do that? What’s the benefit? If an announcement was made that we’re not alone, it could upset the entire world. Religion?
He’s a conservative Republican. Trump’s Roswell comment was not impressive to him. Said he watched Fox News but felt they had an agenda, too.
Very skeptical that the New York Times (I brought it up) would be able to present any credible evidence on crash retrievals. Doesn’t trust the NYT and feels they’re a liberal mouthpiece. I said it won’t matter who reports the story if the military and DoD witnesses share credible stories and present solid evidence. He was skeptical but seemed to accept my point.
President wouldn’t have access if this was real.
Thought the Navy UAP/UFO videos were interesting but could be our black budget tech.
He’s never seen a UFO.
Mentioned that he knew some NASA astronauts and none of them had seen UFOs. I told him about Edgar Mitchell claiming Admiral Wilson (may have been Miller) told him he found a UFO-related SAP and was denied access. That didn’t impress him.
I mentioned how some of this UFO technology may be hidden in a SAP run by a private corporation. He said that’s not how it works and proceeded to explain why. I can’t remember those details.
He thinks the Roswell “craft” was a balloon and the foil material they showed didn’t look like it would come from a solid craft. (I knew enough at this point in the conversation to not bring up the theory that the actual wreckage was replaced with balloon debris). He remembered seeing the Air Force Roswell Report in 1997 and that made sense to him. Case closed! (He didn’t say Case Closed 👽 ).
He twice repeated the Jules Verne quote, “Anything the mind of one man can imagine, the mind of another man can create.”
The last thing he said to me was, “See the movie Paul. My wife and I watch it all the time.”
I asked him if anybody else had contacted him to ask him about UFOs or the documents. He said somebody may have contacted him in the past. I took that as a yes.
I asked him if I could call him to get his reaction if the New York Times publishes a story on crash retrievals. He said I could. What started off rough turned into a decent phone call and lead to me having to tell him I had to go so I could finish this blog!
I forgot to ask him the most important question: Did you know Admiral Wilson and did you ever discuss SAPs while working with him? I called him again today but there was no answer. I left a message. As of now, I have not heard back from him.
Q: Have we attempted to shoot down any UAP? Have we succeeded? Have we recovered any tech or beings, dead or alive?
Elizondo: (shaking his head back and forth) I can’t answer those questions.
Hoffman: Out of curiosity, did AATIP program look at or consider any of the stuff that like maybe, Len Stringfield did with the crash retrievals or look into any of those crashes?
Elizondo: I can’t.
Fourteen months later, on May 31st of 2019, Elizondo was a guest on “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” a highly-rated cable opinion show on Fox News. For whatever reason, he was more willing to answer a similar question.
Tucker Carlson: Do you believe, based on your decade of serving in the U.S. government, on this question, that the U.S. government has in its possession any material from one of these aircrafts?
Luis Elizondo: Woe. Umm…I do, yes.
Tucker Carlson: You think the U.S. government has debris from a UFO in its possession right now?
Luis Elizondo: Unfortunately, Tucker, I really have to be careful of my NDA. I really can’t go into a lot of…more detail than that.
Tucker Carlson: Okay.
Luis Elizondo: But…simply put, yes.
The best thing about that interview has always been Carlson rewording his question to include UFO and debris, and trying to get Elizondo to respond again. Carlson was ready to take, “I really have to be careful” for an answer and leave it at that. But Elizondo answered anyway: “Simply put, yes.” There’s nothing simple about that. A highly respected, career intelligence officer believes the U.S. government has in its possession, debris from a UFO. It may be one of the most important statements ever uttered on a national television program.
“Luis Elizondo’s brief answer to Tucker Carlson’s question about where the U.S. government is in possession of recovered, crashed and landed UFO technology hardware is 1000% accurate. My national security NDAs prevent me from adding any further comment on this.”
Landed UFO technology. Think, “intact craft” and Wilson. And not 100% accurate. Or 200%. He used 1000%, and to me, that sounds like someone trying to drive home a point. Is something of monumental proportions being kept hidden in a highly restricted, Unacknowledged Special Access Program? Yes. Does our government (or a private, aerospace corporation, with little to no oversight) have material and technology from crashed and landed UFOs? Yes. Or, is it “just” small pieces of exotic material, allegedly from elsewhere? No. To me, there’s a huge difference between the two. Displaying a piece of metal or material and saying it has anomalous properties pales in comparison to trotting out a full-sized, flying saucer with “Made on Zeta Reticuli” etched on the side.
On June 1th, 2020, tenacious Bill Cox decided he wanted to strike out again as he contacted Admiral Tom Wilson to see if he would comment on the documents that had leaked a little more than a year before. Wilson continued to deny the whole affair. Let’s take some of his statements one by one.
“I’m not saying that sometime, somewhere, I never met (Davis)”
Seems like Wilson may have had another case of foggy memory syndrome
“I certainly don’t know him”
“I definitely did not sit with him in a car for an hour in Las Vegas”
That is true. They didn’t sit for 60 minutes. The documents say it was 70.
“I don’t remember him”
Foggy memory in action again.
“the Navy was certainly not ferrying me around in a car at that point.”
The notes say the trip was set up by the National Nuclear Security Agency. Maybe that’s a technicality as far as who provided the car?
“Those notes are really detailed – it’s like somebody wrote a fiction piece,”
“Like” somebody wrote fiction.
“But it never happened, trust me. There are so many things in those notes that are demonstrably inaccurate. And I don’t know how I could prove it, but I haven’t been to Las Vegas since 1979, 80.”
Maybe Wilson was telling the whole truth to Cox and I’m totally off base here? Nope. When I read something like that, I wonder if little, inaccurate details were put into the notes so if they ever leaked, there would be parts that Wilson could credibly deny in order to come across as truthful. And then reading his words and denials makes me question everything. Then I look over all the work I’ve done on these WD blogs and it’s so obvious that he’s not telling the truth. But he’s doing that in order to protect himself and his family. Remember that. People should not judge this man. I will write more on that in Part 4.
Wilson said he hadn’t gotten around to reading the Core Secrets docs until someone brought them to his attention within the past week or so.
That’s just not believable to me.
There are more comments from Wilson to Cox in the article but the one that stood out the most was this.
“I’m not saying there are no such programs because I don’t know. I didn’t check or follow up. It might not have been a waste of time for somebody (to pursue), but I did not have time to waste, believe me.
He’s also not saying there are NOT such programs. And it might not be waste of time to go take a look? Kind of odd for someone who told Cox he was skeptical of the “broader subject of UFOs” to be so open about the possibility of there being a crash retrieval program. Documents or not, I have no doubt Wilson knows this program is a fact. And I think he’s trying to do his best to tell us without putting himself at risk for prison time. He’s skirting the edge and hopefully, when we get to see the truth of what’s been kept from us for so long, Tom Wilson can speak openly about what he’s been through the past twenty-three years. I’m sure it hasn’t been easy.