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“The United States government is in possession of exotic material and I’ll leave it at that.”
Audio summary by Joe Murgia…
Here’s the blog by Danny Silva on Elizondo and Sheehan that I mentioned in my audio summary.
by Joe Murgia – @TheUfoJoe on Twitter.
Before we get to the attention-grabbing headline about Luis Elizondo allegedly seeing an extraterrestrial craft in a government facility and the transcript of Daniel Sheehan from a few days ago, here’s some background on Sheehan as he was speaking at The Disclosure Project event in 2001. Obviously, the Project Blue Book story is an important one. To skip to the Elizondo/ET craft part of the of blog, scroll down until you see the red, bold font.
2001 – The Disclosure Project
Daniel Sheehan: Good morning. My name is Daniel Sheehan. I’m an attorney and serving as general counsel to The Disclosure Project. I’m a 1967 graduate of Harvard College and American government studies and constitutional law, and a graduate of Harvard Law School. And I served as general counsel and one of the co-counsel for the New York Times in the Pentagon Papers case, and was involved in briefing and arguing the case in front of the United States Supreme Court, giving permission to the New York Times to publish the classified documents, the 47 volumes of the Pentagon Papers. Subsequent to that time, I served as special counsel to the office of F. Lee Bailey, as one of the trial councels when we represented James McCord in the Watergate burglary and got Mr. McCord to write the letter to Judge Sirica to reveal the Watergate burglar’s relationship to the Plumbers union in the White House at that time.
Subsequent to my service in that case, I went back to Harvard, to the divinity school to study Judeo Christian social ethics and public policy, did my master’s work and PhD work there and became General Counsel for the United States Jesuit headquarters in Washington DC, assigned to the national social ministries office in their public policy office. It was there in 1977, that I was contacted by Miss Marsha Smith, who was the director of the Science and Technology Division of the Congressional Research Service. She asked to meet with me and I met with her and she informed me that President Carter, upon taking office in January of 1977, held a meeting with then, the Director of Central Intelligence, who was George Bush Senior and demanded that the Director of Central Intelligence turn over to the President, the classified information about unidentified flying objects and information that was in the possession of the United States intelligence community concerning the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence. This information was refused to the President of the United States by the Director of Central Intelligence, George Bush Senior.
The director insisted that the President, in order to have access to this information, needed to have clearance…to contact the Congressional Research Service, to contact the United States House of Representatives Science and Technology Division, to have them undertake a process to declassify this information. Because the DCI suspected that the President was preparing to reveal this information to the American public. The Congressional Research Service, Science and Technology Division under the directorship of Marsha Smith was contacted by the House Science and Technology committee, and instructed to undertake a major investigation of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence and the relationship of the UFO phenomenon, to this. I was contacted by Miss Smith and asked in my capacity as General Counsel to the United States Jesuit headquarters, national social ministry office, to see if we could obtain access to the Vatican library to obtain information that the Vatican had with regard to extraterrestrial intelligence, and the phenomenon of UFOs. I pursued that with the permission of father William J. Davis, the Director of the National Office, and we were refused access, as the United States Jesuit Order, to the information in the possession of the Vatican library.
When I reported this to Miss Smith. She then later, subsequently, asked me to participate in a project, pursuant to which I was given access as a special consultant to the United States Library of Congress, Congressional Research Service, to the classified portions of Project Blue Book of the Air Force. In approximately May of 1977, I went to the Madison building of the United States Library of Congress. There was no one in the building at that time, it was brand new. I was directed to a basement office, where there were two guards at the door, and a third sitting at the table, who took my identification, verified that I’d been designated as a special consultant to the Congressional Research Service of the United States Library of Congress and was admitted to the room.
I thereupon found photographs, some dozen photographs of what is unquestionably an unidentified flying object on the ground that had crashed and plowed a furrow in a field of snow and it was embedded in an embankment. There were United States Air Force personnel surrounding this craft, taking photographs of the craft. And in one of the photographs I could see that there were some symbols on the side of the craft. So I proceeded through the photographs and found a close-up photograph of the symbols. I had been instructed that I was to take no notes and had to leave my briefcase and all my identification outside of this room, but I had brought with me a yellow pad. And so what I did is I opened up the yellow pad and refocused the overhead camera onto the same size as the cardboard backing of the yellow pad and I physically traced the copies of the symbols on the side of this craft. Closed the yellow pad back, put the microfiche back into the canister, re-closed the box that I had, and I said, “It is time for me to leave.”
And I took this and proceeded to leave the office, at which point the security guards stopped me and one of them said, “What is that you have there, Mr. Sheehan?” At which point I handed the yellow pad to him and he flipped through all the yellow pages and never found the copy that I had. And so I took that with me and brought it to the United States Jesuit headquarters, had a meeting with the staff, with Father William J. Davis, reported this to them, was authorized at that time by the United States Jesuit headquarters to make a report to the National Council of Churches and to request that the entire 54 major religious denominations of our country undertake a major study of extraterrestrial intelligence, which they declined to do.
I was subsequently asked to deliver a three-hour closed door seminar to the top 50 scientists of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory of SETI – the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, which I did do in 1977. I’m more than happy to testify under oath to these details to the United States Congress, and will be happy to meet with any members of the press. You may recall I also served as chief counsel to the Karen Silkwood case in which we obtained the rulings in the Karen Silkwood case. I also served as chief counsel in the Iran Contra case, was the first one to testify before the United States Congress to the existence of the off the shelf enterprise of Richard Secord and Albert Hakim, I’ll be more than happy to share the details of what I believe to be the relationship between this off the shelf enterprise and the secret government which is concealing this information for the American public. And I’m happy and proud to serve as general counsel to The Disclosure Project. Thank you very much.
Nicole Sakach: I’d like to welcome to our discussion, Mr. Danny Sheehan, and guest.
Melinda Leslie: Well, I can tell you who the other guest is with him and that’s Mark Sims. And Mark Sims is becoming very well known for leading large CE5 events. And I’ll make a prediction right here. I think when it comes to CE5, Mark and the work that he’s doing – and I know Dan will sit there and probably agree with me on this – is gonna surpass what Greer does with it.
And of course, Dan Sheehan. Hopefully everyone watching knows who he is. He did a wonderful presentation just recently for Jordan Pease and his Architects of the New Paradigm conference. And if you’re not sure of Dan’s whole background in the UFO subject, I highly, highly recommend you watch his presentation for that conference, because it started with his involvement with the Carter administration, going forward as into his involvement with Dr. John Mack, going forward into his involvement with Dr. Steven Greer and The Disclosure Project, and then Steven Bassett. And then all the way into what he’s doing now, which is why Grant and I asked him to come be a part of this panel today.
Daniel Sheehan: Well, we were in the neighborhood. And as some of you know, I’ve been talking for some time about this. Because with Dr. John Mack…John and I were in Harvard, trying to set up this New Paradigm Institute…worldview institute, to try to talk about the fact that people who are coming at this issue of extraterrestrial intelligence and the UFO phenomenon, etc, people tend to prism the whole experience through their own lenses of their worldview. And so therefore, the people who are authoritarians or militarists, they view them as this extraordinary threat. People who are sort of utopianists, view them as sort of the George Adamski thing, where they’ve all come from outer space to help us save ourselves from ourselves. And the scientific, logical positivists are viewing them as this strange conundrum that’s sort of somewhere between the borderline of the material realm and in this other realm, whatever it is.
So I’ve been just making myself available over this time, since 1977, when I served as special counsel to Jimmy Carter’s investigation of the UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence with Marsha Smith at the Congressional Research Service. And I’ve been fortunate that because I’m, I don’t know, maybe one of the few lawyers that pays as much attention to this as I do, I keep getting invited by people to represent them in different contexts. You know, whether they’re afraid they’re going to get threatened or their security clearance is going to get yanked away or whatever it is.
And so I have to appear in front of the Inspector General of the Defense Department on Wednesday in Washington, representing Lue Elizondo because he has filed an Inspector General complaint against the Department of Defense for holding back information about the UFO phenomenon. I’ve been leaning on Lue and Chris Mellon to say in public what I know in private in talking with them, in representing Lue. Well, they didn’t do that today, on “60 minutes.” They did the same old shuffle of, “Who knows what they are?” Even to the point where every third of the way through the show, at every specific point, somebody would come on and say, “You know, it could be an awful threat. Who knows, it could be from China.”
Daniel Sheehan: (laughing) Marco Rubio, “Well, you know, if they’re from China, we should know about that.” So that whole thing is going on, as we all know, at a very low level of consciousness about this entire phenomenon. They’re way below the horizon on this discussion, but it is certainly something. Like Melinda, when you said, “Did he hit a home run?” I was saying, “It’s more like a drag bunt.” We’ve got a runner on first base, finally, but nobody’s getting ready to drive him in. So this idea of what are they all doing? What is it they’re up to? What is the agenda that’s going on now? We know perfectly well that when guys like Hal Puthoff, and Kit Green and the other folks and Jim Semivan – the people that are working at the To The Stars Academy – you know perfectly well, I’ve said it 1000 times, they’re clearly choreographing some type of limited, modified hangout, just like with Nixon. In the Watergate burglary, they were trying to figure out…give them a little something, but don’t tell them what’s really going on here.
So what I’m doing is I’m behind the scenes, basically, trying to persuade them to come forward and really lay it down, you know, get into a major dialectical confrontation with the Defense Department. So what we’ve done is, we’ve expanded the Inspector General investigation that Lue has initiated against them, because he thought they were going to try to stop them from releasing the “60 Minutes” thing, right? And so we put together a complaint in the Inspector General’s office, going after them for potentially retaliating against him. And then, what we’ve done is we’ve expanded it into this other more general investigation, to try to get the Defense Department’s Inspector General’s office to come forward with what it is they really know about the UFO phenomenon. It’s a whole separate inspector general investigation.
So we got one going on a whistleblower, if they think he’s saying things that he shouldn’t be saying, and then we’ve got one for retaliation, which is a separate division in the Inspector General’s office, in case they’re retaliating against him for saying something that he’s perfectly authorized to say. And then we’ve got the other one going, the whole Inspector General’s investigation of…is there something that the Defense Department is doing that’s illegal, by concealing all this information? So there’s three, major, Inspector General investigations going right now, in addition to this bizarre report, or whatever it is that’s supposed to be getting handed in here in June.
“…sources familiar with the Task Force say there’s been a major change at the top. The high-ranking official who’s led the UFO investigation for years, is out. The name has not been made public but we’ve learned it’s the same official who’s been briefing Congress since 2018 and who’s been directly responsible for getting elected officials interested in the subject. The Navy assigned the official to other duties.”
Robert Bigelow: “A friend of yours and mine, who up until just very recently, ran the whole program for the United States, right? Of things off the East Coast and West Coast and so forth. And he just ran it, and so he is the best qualified person to run this program the United States has, and he now no longer runs it and they’ve got somebody that’s a couple of ranks lower than him to run the program. And my personal opinion is, there’s an effort that’s going to try to eliminate this or put this back in a back drawer compartment now, because they changed the rank as to who’s in charge.”
George Knapp: “Changed the rank, take took the guy who’s most knowledgeable out of it, giving them an impossible task to write the master report in six months, with no budget.”
Robert Bigelow: “Right.”
George Knapp: “And the guy who’s in charge of it, by the way, is doing it on his own time.”
Robert Bigelow: “Yeah, that’s right.”
Sheehan addd his own take on that situation…
Daniel Sheehan: But it’s clear that a potential report coming in from the UAP Task Force, inside the Office of Naval Intelligence, is supposed to be coming in in June. I know, from talking with Lue, that this is the third person. When [Lue] quit as the head of AATIP, his deputy, Jed (Two sources told me Jed is not the correct name of this person ~Joe), came in to be the head of that. And then they closed it down and then they had Jed become the head of this new thing inside the Office of Naval Intelligence, the UAP Task Force. Then Lue was having conversations with [Jed] because we were trying to get him to do what should be done, and so they removed him. And now there’s this new guy who’s in there, and we’ve been talking, we thought what he’s getting ready to try to do is to ask for an extension of time. “Oh, you gave us this deadline of having to get this in within 180 days” and “Oh, we need more time.” It’s a typical, classic foot-dragging operation. If they can just delay it longer, and it hope the news cycle goes on to something else like the Palestinians and the Israelis having a recent fight and they’re hoping that people will forget about this.
So what I’m hoping to do is…from the point of view of being asked to represent different people, at different times, about this whole issue, I’ve never changed my position. I think that we should talk about this completely and get everybody involved in talking about it. It’s the most important issue that I’ve ever seen in the public issue area…and I’ve seen a few, as you know. But this is the most important one of them all. And now I’m talking to guys, for example, we were talking with a fellow, a Central Intelligence Agency guy, who was in a division which is electronic intelligence of monitoring all kinds of electronic signals in and around the planet. And, I mean, this guy’s a full time Central Intelligence Agency guy and he says, “Well, of course, we know that the stuff that happened at Roswell, that really did happen.” You know, he’s just sort of talking about it as sort of off the cuff and he says, “Of course, that all happened.” And I figure that’s progress. You know, when you’re getting people from inside the CIA sitting right there telling you, “Yes, sure, that happened, of course” because of Don’s work, among others, making it just kind of irrefutable. So that they finally give in when it becomes completely irrefutable (indecipherable), it is true.
It’s not clear to me, yet, exactly what it is or why it is that this drumbeat has started here, this whole kind of acceleration of talking about this issue, acknowledging it as quote, real. But I clearly don’t go as far as is Steven Greer does and say, “Well, they’re obviously getting set to undertake some kind of a false flag operation and so they’re trying to beat the drums about this terrible threat.” I don’t think that’s what’s going on but I don’t know what’s going on. And one of the most important principles that any of us can follow, as we all know, is…don’t pretend you know more than you know because more damage is done by people thinking they know what they’re doing.
How it first started…Lue reached out to me because he was pissed off that they (the Pentagon) were saying, “Lue Elizondo never had anything to do with the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Project. And besides, no such project ever really existed.” That was their first kind of response: “All this stuff about us investigating UFOs, that’s not true. It had nothing to do with UFOs,” and he was really pissed off about that. And he was taking a position that, “Well, that’s calling me a liar because I’ve gone forward with the To The Stars Academy, and I talked about my position, so they’re basically calling me a liar.” And so I said to him, “Look, if that’s the worst that happens, you oughta [consider yourself] to be lucky. I remember Oliver Stone said to me…he had me come to his home in Hollywood and look at the original editor’s cut of the JFK story. And I was downstairs in his home, waiting for him to come, we were gonna watch it together. And he came in and he was all pissed off because Newsweek had a great, big front cover that said, “Oliver Stone’s, JFK: The Twisted Truth of JFK.” He said, “Look at these people, they’re basically calling me a liar.” I said, “What the fuck did you expect? You keep everybody and their brother…what did you expect them to say?”
So Lue was all upset, “Oh, these people are calling me a liar!” I said, “They’re all fucking liars, they’ve been lying for like 75 years. Why are you surprised?” You know, so this is how it started. So I said, “What is it you want to say? Because you’re going around pretending this is a threat [and] that isn’t what you want to be saying.” And he said, “Well, you know, that’s true.” Here’s how he first came across it. When he was the executive director of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, the first thing he noticed is that none of the high-ranking military seemed to be acting like this was a threat of any kind: “Oh, yeah, it turned off our nuclear warheads at the Minuteman sites, and it’s been buzzing around our aircraft carriers” but none of them are treating it like it’s a threat and he says he was kind of puzzled by that. Because his normal instincts as a security officer…basically his hair was on fire to start with: “Oh shit, they’re turning off nuclear missiles! Oh, they’re buzzing around aircraft carriers!” But every time he was talking about it [those other folks were nonchalantly saying] “Well, yeah, there they are again.” And so he said, “They clearly do not view this as a threat.” And so I said to him, “Why do you think they think it’s not a threat? And then he said, “Well, because obviously, the kind of technology that they got, if they wanted to be a threat, they could be a serious threat. They could turn off our nuclear weapons, they can accelerate to the speed of light, right in front of us. So obviously, there’s nothing we could do to touch them. So obviously, if they were going to be a threat, then they would have already really been done something.” So he says, “So that, too. Both the fact that the high-level military people are treating it like they’re not a threat and the fact is that if they were going to be a threat, they would have already done something, so they’re not really a threat.”
And he was still at To The Stars Academy, and so I said, “Well why do you guys keep on saying it? Why do you guys at To The Stars Academy, every time anybody turns a camera on you, you start talking about it being a threat?” And he said, “Well, it’s because that’s how you can get people’s attention, we can get people’s attention, because they’re all worried about it being a threat.” And I said, “You go down that road and you’re gonna get down that road too far, and you aren’t gonna be able to get off that road. You keep on flogging that dog and you’re gonna get caught, so you gotta stop that. You gotta back up out of that and stop pretending this is a threat.” And so then he started talking with the other people inside the To the Stars Academy and with Chris Mellon. And Chris and he both started getting distressed over the fact that the To The Stars Academy people kept on telling them that they had to be presenting it like it’s a potential threat, because they were trying to get Congress to have an investigation about it. And he said, “the way to get the Congress to have an investigation about it is to approach it like a threat.” Because the senators and Congress people are just like Pavlov’s dog. You ring the bell at them and they’ll talk about a threat, whether it’s the Russians or the Chinese. But Lue said, “We know it’s not the Russians or the Chinese, we know everything they’ve got and they don’t got that.”
So I said, “Well, have they briefed you on what we’ve got? And he said, “I think so. I think so,” which told me right at the beginning, I don’t think they have. I don’t think they briefed him in on what it is we’ve really got. And I’ve seen all kinds of stuff now about what we’ve got, which has shocked the shit out of me. They’re got an aircraft that goes Mach 12 (9207 mph) and they showed me a picture of it. And it’s got this bizarre technology, where it starts going supersonic, and it’s got this kind of shockwaves all around it. And then these tubes come out of the top of it and start pumping some kind of a weird, rare gas into their shock waves and it causes explosions, which propel the plane. And the thing goes at at Mach 12. It’s got 120 nuclear tubes with with nuclear warheads. They can deliver 120 nuclear bombs across the surface of Russia in two minutes, at Mach 12, which is (makes a zip noise) across all the whole fucking place…
But that’s got nothing to do with the UFO technology. That’s some technology that they figured out and it wasn’t using the UFO technology. So I said, “Well, okay, that’s interesting. So what do they got with the UFO technology? How well has that been developed?” So I’ve now got the list of names of the people that have been working on it and I’m going to find them out. It’s all S-4, it’s Ben Rich, it’s all that whole story that you (Melinda Leslie) and I’ve spent 100 hours talking about it. So I don’t get the sense that Lue has been briefed in on that. He genuinely…he’s totally convinced it’s not Russian and he’s totally convinced it’s not Chinese, and he thinks that we don’t have jack shit. Really. And I know that we do. And so I’m still in the process of trying to get him briefed in on what we really got.
Other Panelist: Are you actually saying that you’re briefing Lue Elizondo on what the United States military has in its arsenal?
Daniel Sheehan: No, I was trying to find out from him whether he knew. I happen to have known. I was just trying to get him to tell me what it is he knew and it was clear to me he didn’t know about these things. And so, what I’m trying to do here is, I’m trying to…it’s a simple thing. I am trying to get Lue and Chris and other people. I haven’t gotten to talk to Jim Semivan, yet and I haven’t talked to Hal Puthoff.
Melinda Leslie: Give me the questions, Dan. I’ll run them by him (Semivan).
Daniel Sheehan: The first question to ask him is: “Is it true that you were the head of covert operations, stateside?”
Melinda Leslie: Yes.
Daniel Sheehan: Because that’s a criminal offense and he ought to be in prison.
Melinda Leslie: I have every reason to believe the answer to that is yes.
Daniel Sheehan: Yeah. So you’re in trouble right from the very beginning when you’re talking with him about this stuff. So I’m anticipating that I’ll get a call, sooner or later, from him, eventually, from Hal Puthoff and eventually from Kit Green and the people. And so what I’m trying to do is I’m just trying to stay completely honest, completely forthright. I know that you can’t trust anybody in the CIA, no matter what anybody says, you know, there’s no such thing as a former CIA person. Just like there’s no such thing as a former Marine. If you ever say, “Oh, you’re a former Marine?” they will say to you instantly, “There’s no such thing as a former Marine. Semper Fi.” The same thing is true with the CIA person. And so, the question that one of the guys was raising, is that, the fact is, there’s another agenda here. There’s no doubt at all that there’s another agenda. The question is, whose agenda is it? Because it ain’t Lue’s, and it isn’t Chris’s and I don’t believe that somebody inside the To The Stars Academy is involved in it. But I’m still not sure how far they’ve been briefed in on everything. I don’t know, yet.
That’s the question. Who are the ones that are up there? (meaning, who has access to the good stuff locked up in USAPs). I’ve got this list now of reasonable suspects that I’m working my way through because it turns out Ben Rich was on the list. This is a list that was compiled when he was still alive. So he was one of them that was in there. You remember now, Eric Davis is the one that told Rubio, in the closed door session with the Senate Intelligence Committee, that, “the people in my task force – the UAP Task Force now, the ONI – our people believe that these are off-world vehicles.” I mean, that’s what he said to him. That’s what’s lit up Rubio. All of [Rubio’s] pretense of bullshitting about, oh, he thinks they might be Russian. He knows perfectly well, they’re not Russian. But the bottom line is that the people believe they’re off-world vehicles, that’s what they believe. But you get them to even utter the thing of extraterrestrial life or extraterrestrial beings. They won’t say it, but they do believe they’re off-world vehicles. You know, who else is driving off-world vehicles?
Dave Scott asked…Why now?
Daniel Sheehan: There’s an agenda going here on the part of the people that are in possession of the highest levels of information about all of us. There’s some kind of an agenda going on now, starting to accelerate, releasing some of the information. What they’ve released so far is…they’re real. They’re not swamp gas, they’re not reflections of search lights from lighthouses off the clouds. They’re saying, “Okay, these are real, these are vehicles, they’re using the vehicles. They’re under intelligent control. They’re saying all these things. That’s a lot more, as we all know…it’s a lot more than they’ve ever acknowledged, at least since that golden age of UFOs in the late 50s when they were actually talking about these things. But the fact of the matter is, there’s some agenda going now to lift up some discourse about this thing. As I said, I don’t think it’s because they’re getting set to stage some false flag attack. I don’t know what the reason is, but as I say, you have to be careful about getting attached to thinking there’s some specific reason they’re doing it, because you won’t find out the real reason. So I don’t know what the real reason is, why this is happening all of a sudden, but there’s something going on right now. But I also am quite confident that, in June, you’re not going to have the people in the know, cough it up to the Senate Intelligence Committee, because that would remain secret for probably 24 hours, whatever it is they told the Senate Intelligence Committee. So that isn’t going to happen.
But whatever it is they’re going to say, whatever portions of anything they’re going to say, is part of the agenda. So we have to get a look at what it is they say. Now, if in fact, they just postpone it and get a continuance, that’s going to make it perfectly clear that we’re dealing with Charlie Brown and the football. It’s just a little more, luring you in and getting you all excited and then pulling the football away and having us all bumping into each other again, so we’ll see. But I have no great expectations about this particular report that’s going to be coming in here in June.
Nicole Sakach asked…What will it take to get this to the next level and talking about a non-military experiencer case?
Daniel Sheehan: [It’s all] derivative of the big elephant in the living room and that is the ET beings themselves. Because it’s perfectly obvious, if they wanted to have it revealed, they could do it, and they don’t. And they’re engaged in some other process that’s going on here. And so that the key for us to do is to figure out what that process is, not spend so much of our time worrying about what the Defense Department’s doing, or what the CIA is doing, or what some President is going to do when they get in there. The question is: What are the ET people going to be doing? What type of coordination do they have, if there’s more than one planetary system that have their people coming here, what’s their level of arrangement with each other? What are the protocols they’re actually pursuing? We need to know that and that’s why the real answer to this is in diplomacy.
I just had a long conversation with the father of someone who is at the U.S. Air Force Academy, because I was kind of, behind the scenes, kind of advising this person for when they arrived at the Air Force Academy to start talking about this. Because they look at, “We’re the Air Force officers of the future, how about briefing us in on what we’re supposed to be doing here, what kind of protocols are we’re gonna go.” And the Air Force Academy has got in their booklet that they hand out to cadets when they first arrived, they’ve got a form for reporting UFO sightings, but they aren’t talking about it. It’s just there. And so what I do is I keep handing off information to this person to confront their professors at the Air Force Academy, to say, “How about this or how about that?” So we got all all kinds of channels opened up, but I think they all they all pale in the face of this specific question of what the ET people themselves want to do here. Because whatever it is they want to do, they’re calling the shots here. I mean, even what Mark was talking about is…some team or some individual that could get sort of blessed to be kind of an emissary, that’s still up to them to decide whether they want to do that. So we need to find out what it is they want, and what it is they want us to do. All of us who are utopians will say, “Oh, obviously, they’re waiting for us all to rise in our level of consciousness so that we are at the right vibrational frequency so that we’re in sympathetic resonance with their vibrational frequency. Oh then we’ll have merited citizenship in the Galactic Federation.” We can go on and on, right, but that’s all just guesswork. They’re our prison as utopianists.
So that what we got to do is we got to find out, what it is that they’re up to. How many of them are there? What type of coordination do they have among themselves? Are any of them more rogue than the others? Are there good ones and not so good ones? We need to find this out. I’ve spent 50 years doing investigations of things that people consider to be a conspiracy, whether it’s the people who killed Karen Silkwood, or how do you shut down the nuclear power plants, or how do you find out who’s supplying weapons to the contras, who’s smuggling cocaine into the United States to buy weapons? This is what we do. So, I’m turning my attention to this issue and I’m trying to figure out…it’s not so much trying to figure out who the people are that are in charge in the secret realms here, it’s the ET people. It’s the ET people that are in charge of this thing.
So what we have to do is open up a line of communication, just like when I was at Jesuit headquarters and was general counsel with the Jesuit office, we reached out to Gorbachev.
Gorbachev was just the Secretary of Agriculture under Anthropov, and we had direct face to face meetings with him to start negotiating about disassembling the nuclear warheads. You know, that’s how perestroika and glasnost came about. You know, it’s through citizen diplomacy. And so that’s how we have to do it, I think. That’s why the CE5 thing is so important. Actually establishing direct communication with the extraterrestrial beings and opening our heart to them and saying, “Look, we’re not totally dumb and naive. Don’t think we’re so stupid that we don’t merit any kind of responsible communications from you. Let’s have an intelligent conversation. There’s an element within our human family, you know, we’re perfectly cognizant of the shortcomings of our human family. We’re flawed ourselves but, we want to have this conversation, so let’s have the conversation. Tell us what you’re up to. That’s the way we gotta do it. Don’t underestimate the ET people. They have a very good idea of what we’re up to.
Grant Cameron: Do you think you can keep the Inspector General on course, and do you have any ability to force the issue and make him do the job the way he’s supposed to do it?
Daniel Sheehan: I hope. I’m not sure yet. The fellow that we’re dealing with is named Steven Johnson, Dr. Steven Johnson. He is the director of whistleblower in retaliation investigations for the Inspector General. And then there’s this other woman that is in charge of recrimination, which is some sort of a different category. And then there’s a third one, I haven’t gotten to talk to, yet, that’s in charge of this whole general investigation inside the DoD about what they know about UFOs. And what are the protocols that are being used to conceal it and are they legal? There are three different investigations going on. What I’m assuming that what I end up having to do is talk to the Inspector General himself because there are these other lieutenants that are having jurisdiction here. But what we’ve got to do is, we’ve got to get the pressure on Susan Gough, at least. She’s the DoD person who’s blocking the information. She’s the one putting out all these lies about, you know, there’s no such thing as AATIP and we aren’t doing this anymore, you know, that thing.
So, what I’ve got to do is find out who I’m dealing with in the Inspector General’s office. I’ve never met a government lawyer that I trusted because they’ve got this other agenda, as you were talking about. They are people under authority and they’ve got instructions, and they view themselves as being responsible for protecting the institution itself. Anybody who thinks that they’re actually engaged in trying to protect the public interest ought to have their head examined. That’s what John Mack used to say. But the bottom line is, I’ve got to try to find out who these people are, how honest they are, how seriously they take their job, you know, how fascinated are they going to become about this subject. I mean, any human being that has a heartbeat, you know, basically when this information starts getting in front of them, they start saying, “Oh shit, you know, here I am. I’m like I’m in a movie here. Like, this is the big issue, and all of a sudden, it’s come on to my table. What am I going to do about this? Am I going to just salute the flag and walk at attention in front of whoever’s telling me what to do? Or am I going to actually have a little bit of leeway here to try to find out what’s really going on? Am I going to exercise whatever degree of discretion I’ve got, to try to do something that will merit real respect with my grandchildren?
So I have to find this out, don’t know, yet. But I’m going to I’m going to know Wednesday because I’m going to get I’m going to get to talk with Steven Johnson and find out what he is about and I’m gonna get to talk with the other IG, so I’ll know by the end of the month, some of what we’re dealing with here.
Question about FOIA by Jeff Kingsbury…
Daniel Sheehan: What’s more shocking is the fact that they release anything at all through FOIA. I mean, Richard Dolan has gotten lots and lots of stuff through his FOIA actions, you know, and letters and everything. And so they obviously view the FOIA process as some portion of whatever that agenda is they’ve got, a kind of feathering out of little pieces of information. But the Freedom of Information Act has got twenty-two specific exceptions. For example, in the letter they sent back to us when we filed the IG complaint for Lue, they sent us back this Privacy Act thing that says that even the things that aren’t covered by national security are covered by the Privacy Act. So anybody who’s involved in this process is not supposed to tell anybody about it. Fuck you. Who do you think you’re talking to here? You know, I mean, that’s the same thing they said at Harvard University: “Well, this is all very private.” Fuck you with private.” I mean, you’re sticking it up poor John’s (Mack) butt here and he supposed to bend over and hold his ankles. I said, “Fuck you guys. We’re going to tell people what’s going on. We will tell you the truth, we’ll bring witnesses in, we’ll [do] all this kind of stuff. But, I mean, who the hell do you think you’re talking to here?” You know?
So that’s the position we have to take with them without being overly insulting, which may not be that easy. Yeah. But we’ll see what’s going to happen. I always start out assuming that they’re good people and they’ve gotten themselves into this position and they may be a little bit toady, because they’re inside an institution like that. But we’ll see what’s going to happen here.
Asked about The Disclosure Project…
Daniel Sheehan: I can still never figure out to this day why Marsha Smith is so pissed off from way back in 1977, when we were working on these reports for Jimmy Carter. She just refuses to talk to anybody about anything. Like she pretends like she was never even involved in any of that stuff. I think she’s over done whatever she thinks is the secret, the secret nature of the investigation we were supposed to be doing. And then she got offended that the fact that anybody would talk about it at all. It’s a complete black hole with Marsha. She will not talk to anybody. If you walk into her office and try to start talking to her, she’ll get right up and walk out of the office as if she never… After she ran the investigation for the Carter administration, she was the head of the Science and Technology Division of the Congressional Research Service for the Library of Congress. That’s where she was. But because she was so secretive about what it is that we were all doing together, the Reagan administration made her the head of the Citizens Advisory Commission on U.S. Space Policy. So she saw that she’s rewarded for just being completely secretive about this. And least to say, I wasn’t. And so she’s really upset about that, I can tell. But the fact is, she just gets up and walks out of the room if anybody even asked her about any of this stuff, at all. So, I don’t know, I could have been more diplomatic about telling everybody about whatever I knew about this stuff, you know? It was under her aegis that I got to see the classified sections of Project Bluebook. I mean, I told everybody as fast as I could, what I had I seen (laughs). Holy shit, look what I saw!”
So they know that’s going to be the way I am. I’m not gonna do any big secret stuff. Bob Fink was the investigator for Bella Abzug. Bella was the Congresswoman from New York that was the chairperson of the individual rights subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee. When they were doing the Church Committee investigations of the CIA, and they had the House site, it was called the Pike committee under under Otis Pike. And Bob Fink got seconded by Bella Abzug to be one of the investigators for that. And he said, “Danny, don’t ever take a security oath. Look, I know you. You can find out anything that you will be able to find out with a security clearance. You can find it out anyhow. So don’t ever take a security clearance and then they can never say that you violated a security clearance.” So I’m never going to take a security clearance at anything. They could offer to sit me down with an ET to interview him and I’m not gonna take a security oath. I’ll tell people whatever I know.
Question about experiencers and messages they receive about nuclear weapons.
Daniel Sheehan: The two main messages, every time. You talk to Barbara Lamb, you talk to John Mack, anybody who’s had all kinds of interviews of the contactees. The thing that they talk about, is, you’ve got to get rid of the nuclear weapons, you’ve got to get rid of the nuclear weapons, you can’t have these nuclear weapons. You detonate these things, and it’s having repercussions all throughout the galaxy. You got to stop doing this. And also, you got to stop what they call polluting your planet. You’re polluting your planet [and] it’s going to destroy the ecological system of your planet. These are the two things, over and over and over again. Back in 1994, John (Mack) and I were going to be talking at the MUFON conference down in Orange County. It turned out that everybody was there. Stanton Friedman was there and Budd Hopkins was there and Linda Moulton Howe was there and Steven Greer was there. A whole bunch of people. And so we’re all in the green room together, right? And so I stood up and I said, “Holy shit, look at here, we’re all in one place. This is really interesting.”
All the work that I’ve ever done out in the regular world, is you have to build coalitions, you have to get people who have a common interest with you. And the problem with the UFO movement is it’s all by itself. It’s this kind of thing that’s completely sui generous, and it is doesn’t have connections to anybody else. You got to reach out and establish connections with the anti-nuclear weapons people and with the environmental people that are trying to stop climate change. And I was talking about this back in 1994. That’s what we have to do. These two issues that the ET people keep talking about over and over and over again. We’ve got to get people in the environmental movement, in this huge movement now to try to stop global climate change, to understand. That’s why I think the Ariel movie that’s going to be coming out, that Randy’s gonna be doing, is gonna be really, really important. Because of all the people that look at those little kids and see all the pictures that they drew about what they were being told by the ETs. Nobody’s gonna doubt that.
Bob McGwier says that Jim Goodall told him and Dave Scott (on Spaced Out Radio) that Donald Trump, after speaking with Lou Dobbs and Donald Trump Jr., “declassified the UFO stuff.” If that happened, BM speculates that once Biden was elected, the folks in charge of the secrecy would go into delaying action and hope that Biden would undo it. Did that even happen?
Daniel Sheehan: I just saw Jim two weekends ago and he didn’t say anything like that to me. I was talking to him about all this stuff. He never said a word to me about that. I’ll ask him.
Grant Cameron asks about Gorbachev, and how the Russians and the Chinese are dealing with UFOs.
Daniel Sheehan: The first time I had a private conversation with Gorbachev, I asked him about it. And what he did is, he just took out a little notepad out of his pocket, and he wrote down a telephone number and handed it to me. And so I went and called up the number, and it was a personal friend of his in Russia and he was the the editor of the only Hebrew language newspaper in Russia. And he laughed when I called him. I said, “Mihkail gave me this number and said I should call you because I asked him about UFOs.” And he told me the story about this big UFO incident that happened outside of Moscow a number of years earlier, where it was like a Sunday morning, and there are all kinds of people, hundreds of people running around in this big public area or park or something. And a UFO came and it sent this big beam of light down and this one guy walked out, like right out of War of the Worlds movie. He walked out to it like this, with his hands up like this, and the beam of light covered him all up and he just disappeared. The UFO hovered around there and there were hundreds of people who saw it and they went scrambling, running around trying to find telephones to call everybody they knew. And then it flew away. And so, he got the report, he said, from their newspaper, and he sent one of their reporters out there, right away, lickety split, jump in the car, go out there and talk to anybody you can see. So he gets out there and he’s talking to all these people and they’re trying to talk about what they saw. And the thing comes back, when he was there! And it came back, and it hovered and the big light came out and then the guy was all of a sudden standing there. And the guy didn’t remember anything, didn’t know anything had happened, he just was kind of baffled. And this guy wrote the story about it, and it was in the newspaper, and he told me about it. And that was that was all.
I knew Dr. Jin Jou Jing, who was the head of the Science and Technology Division of the Chinese Academy of Social Science. When I was over there at the State of the World Forum, so I was over there talking with her and they were doing experiments in anti gravity at the science and technology committee and also in psycho kinetics and also telepathy. That’s what they were working on. And they were trying to figure out an alternative energy source, at that point. And so that’s why they were interested in UFOs, because they were trying to figure out what their energy source was. And I didn’t talk with her much after that. She wanted me to try to get ahold of Ted Turner, because she knew that I knew him. And I knew George Zimmer, the guy that owns all the Men’s Wearhouses. And she was trying to get them to chip in to finance putting together this study and I kept saying, “Why don’t you have the Chinese government pay for it?” And she didn’t trust them. She didn’t trust the Chinese Communist Party. She didn’t like the Chinese Communist Party and she didn’t wanna…I guess I shouldn’t say this about her (yeah, because now the Chinese government will be paying her a visit). But she didn’t trust them, so she was trying to get it funded privately, which says something to you, because that’s kind of the same thing that happened here, that happened in the United States.
These corporations, you know, the Skunk Works, and Lockheed Martin, and Rockwell and all these people, there’s no doubt at all that these people are up to their elbows in this thing. And they’ve got all kinds of access to the technology, they’ve been developing the technology and they’re outside of the normal channels of the chain of command, which you can say good things and bad things about that. But it’s peculiar. I mean, it’s definitely peculiar to have people who are in the private industry, making money for shareholders, to have a monopoly control over this particular technology. And they’re the ones that are the ones that are insistent about keeping everything super secret, because they’ve got proprietary interest in this technology. And so the general officers, when they’re told something is Top Secret, they don’t know where it comes from, they don’t know how high up it goes, where the orders have come to keep it secret. But they probably run right back to those corporations, who are protecting their proprietary interest and it’s totally contrary to their national interest. This is a peculiar morass. It’s not necessarily much more complicated than trying to figure out who killed Karen Silkwood at the private nuclear plant, or, who’s smuggling the cocaine. But what it takes is it concentrated effort, professional, concentrated effort, not wild speculation, about…oh, it’s going to be some kind of a false flag attack, or they’re coming here to eat our children or any of that stuff.
You have to go one step at a time and figure this thing out. And that’s why Mark and I are here…we’re trying to talk about how citizens can responsibly reach out to talk with the beings themselves, to find out what they want. Because they’re at a whole other pay grade above whoever it is that thinks they’re in charge down here on the planet. I mean, these are the people that are in charge of deciding how much we’re going to know. So we’re trying to coax them into telling us more.
Q: What if this makes it into the courts?
Daniel Sheehan: Well, they’ve got 236 new federal judges, that have all been appointed, all scans of The Federalist Society. You aren’t gonna get shit in discovery. I mean, you can file cases until you’re blue in the face, and they’re not going to give you discovery about this stuff. You may not get bounced out on a 12(b)(6) ruling that the allegations, just on their face, even if they’re proven, don’t give you any cause of action. You’ve got to figure out what the cause of action would be. But even if you get through a 12 (b)(6), they’re not going to give you discovery. These judges are just going to ignore all your motions to compel and everything else. So I don’t believe that the legal system is really very viable right now, to get anything done by way of progressive change at all. And I’ve been at this for 50 years, and we’ve made more progress than most people by going through the judicial system, but I don’t hold out any any reasonable prospects for it right now. I mean, if in fact, the democrats were to bite the bullet and appoint four new justices to the Supreme Court, so that you’ve got a court up above there that is at least a neoliberal court instead of a reactionary court, there may be some chances, even though you’d have to fight your way through all the district court judges and courts of appeals to get to them. But until something dramatic happens like that, I wouldn’t hold out any real hope for going through litigation, much less the Administrative Procedures Act, trying to beat up on some administrative agency because they’re violating all the rules. We’re in a very difficult time right now. And so, again, echoing the same concerns you have, I don’t know why this new phenomenon is starting. I don’t place any credibility, at least at this point, in the fact that Donald Trump declassified all this stuff. I mean, he would have been all over Twitter with that, if he had done something like that.
Tom Whitmore: We’re still waiting for the JFK documents…
Daniel Sheehan: There’s a whole bunch of more documents that are supposed to come out this fall. I don’t know whether they’re going to or not. But, we’ll see about those.
Did Elizondo See an Extraterrestrial Craft in a Government Facility?
In a livestream uploaded to YouTube on May 19th, Dr. Steven Greer said this:
“Daniel Sheehan has also shared, and this is even more explosive, that Luis Elizondo has informed him that he in fact has been in a facility, where an actual extraterrestrial vehicle was stored. Now, why is that important? Because he’s all over the news…saying we don’t know what these are.”
After hearing this, I leaned heavily towards this being true. Why? On May 31st of 2019, Elizondo was a guest on “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” a highly-rated cable opinion show on Fox News. For whatever reason, he was more willing to answer a similar question.
Tucker Carlson: “Do you believe, based on your decade of serving in the U.S. government, on this question, that the U.S. government has in its possession any material from one of these aircrafts?”
Luis Elizondo: “Woe. Umm…I do, yes.”
Tucker Carlson: “You think the U.S. government has debris from a UFO in its possession right now?”
Luis Elizondo: “Unfortunately, Tucker, I really have to be careful of my NDA. I really can’t go into a lot of…more detail than that.”
Tucker Carlson: “Okay.”
Luis Elizondo: “But…simply put, yes.”
He didn’t have to answer that question. But he did, twice. On February 23rd of 2021, Elizondo was on Spaced Out Radio.
Dave Scott: “Has Lue Elizondo, the person, ever seen a gray being? Big, black eyes, skin color, silverish tone, maybe brown at times, four-feet tall to five-feet tall, almond-shaped eyes, a slit mouth, barely any nose, three fingers. Ever seen one?
Luis Elizondo: Lue Elizondo as a person has seen some pretty extraordinary things in his life. I don’t wanna prejudice the jury here. I’ve seen a lot of things in my life that have been very, very compelling. But in every one of those situations and in every case, I needed more data. You’re asking a great question and people are gonna say I’m being evasive and yeah, you’re damn right I am. I am being evasive on purpose.
Dave Scott: “Did it scare you?”
Luis Elizondo: “A lot of things scare me, sure. Fear for me, though, I’m not scared by this topic. I’m more scared of not being able to ask or not allowed to a question than getting the answer to the question that I’m asking. Unless you’re shooting at me, I’m really not gonna get stressed. If we can’t have a conversation about, potentially, something that is existential to our species and our understanding, to me, the bigger threat is not being able to ask the question, versus the answer itself. I’d rather have an uncomfortable answer than not being allowed to ask the question that I’m asking.”
On May 11th of 2021, Steve Greenstreet asked Elizondo about propulsion, how they travel and what data is used to form the various theories. Elizondo made an analogy to investigating the scene of a car accident.
Luis Elizondo: “You don’t know the circumstances in which the accident occurred so you start collecting the evidence. You start talking to eyewitnesses, you get the telemetry from the vehicle itself…”
Steven Greenstreet: “In your analogy, you said the vehicle itself is part of the evidence. You go up to it, you look at it, you examine it. Was that happening with AATIP?”
Luis Elizondo: “Wow, great question. I’ve gotta be careful how I answer this. That certainly would be preferred. The intent of AATIP was to try to collect as much and any information and evidence as possible, period. Whether it was electro-optical or electromagnetic or whatever. And certainly, material science is certainly a gold standard. If you can get a piece of material and you can look at, not just its physical properties, but its molecular, chemical properties and ultimately its atomic properties, you can ascertain whether or not something has been engineered or manufactured or it’s a part of the natural environment.”
And finally, on May 19th, 2021, Elizondo was the guest on Tucker Carlson.
Tucker Carlson: “We keep hearing whispers that there is physical evidence of the existence of these objects that might tell us what they are. Do you believe that’s true.?
Luis Elizondo: “I do believe it’s true and I think that we should be looking at this and I think we should be more transparent with the American people. And the last thing we need to do is lie to the American people. I’ll tell you one thing, Tucker, from my perspective, that type of position, where you continue to lie to the American people and obfuscate is the reasons why people like me decide to run for Congress. And I can tell you, the last thing DoD wants right now is someone like me in Congress but that’s what happens when you’re not honest and open and fair with people. You get what you pay for. ”
Tucker Carlson: “I agree with that completely. Is there debris, do you believe, from any of these vehicles, whatever they are?”
Luis Elizondo: “Tucker, the United States government is in possession of exotic material and I’ll leave it at that. More analysis needs to be done. There’s enough uniqueness about it where it demands additional analysis, additional expertise and thankfully, there are pockets in the U.S. government that are wiling to have the conversation and conduct the analysis. I’m not gonna say those right now, what those elements are, because I’m worried, frankly, for the same type of reprisal that I’m facing, currently. But there are pockets of people that are willing to do the right thing and fortunately, these individuals are patriotic and willing to do the job.”
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