Eric Davis, Wilson/Davis

Transcript: The Lost Interview – Eric Davis & The Wilson/Davis Notes

14 Mar , 2021  

“I think there’s a lot of evidence that the government has known, but the problem is, it’s so outside the realm of of human comprehension that they can’t deal with it on a legislative basis, they can’t deal with it on a military, operational basis, they can’t deal with it on the basis of a presidential policy.”

~Dr. Eric Davis


Massive thanks to Giuliano Marinkovic for helping me find most of these tweets and videos.

By Joe Murgia

In November of 2019, Steven Greenstreet, host of “The Basement Office,”interviewed Eric Davis, PhD about his role in the Pentagon’s UFO program and it was uploaded to YouTube on May 27th of 2020.  On May 28th, a short, bonus video was tweeted by Greenstreet that included questions and answers about the infamous Wilson/Davis notes that leaked online in April of 2019. That video was removed later that day without explanation, and when I asked Greenstreet for the reason, he said it was because there was something in the background that needed to be blurred and once that was done, the bonus video would be put back up. Others received the same explanation.

It was never uploaded again.

Thanks to the quick thinking and magical computer skills of a friend of mine, it was saved. Greenstreet also started promoting a 13-minute episode that dealt solely with the Wilson/Davis affair. That has yet to see the light of day. Here are all the related tweets from Greenstreet and others asking about the status of one of the most anticipated videos from all of 2020. Following that, is my transcription of everything that was posted on YouTube and Twitter and the short Wilson/Davis promo interview that was deleted, but saved.




I have zero doubt the Wilson/Davis notes/docs are an accurate representation of what Admiral Thomas Wilson said to Dr. Davis in Las Vegas on October 16th of 2002. It’s not fan fiction, not a script (as John Greenewald has suggested), and it wasn’t an Wilson imposter that Davis met with as Lt. Tim McMillan has theorized. Now, whether Wilson was given accurate information from the program manager of the Special Access Program is another story. Going by what Dr. Davis has said about the crash retrieval programs in various interviews, I think Wilson was given the truth and shared that with Davis.

Eight days after the above tweet, I asked Greenstreet when this much anticipated video would be posted.



Greenstreet teased the video by tweeting a few stills and by the looks of it, it was going to include a comment or, a “no comment,” from Wilson.










Thanks to information from various sources, I knew the New York Times was working on an article about UFO crash retrievals that would possibly include something on the Wilson/Davis notes. Several of us had heard journalist Ralph Blumenthal on a fact-finding mission about Wilson/Davis, live on Facebook with “The Paranormal Lawyer,” Michael Hall.

I (naively) asked Greenstreet if maybe there was some coordination going on between various media outlets and that was the reason for the delay. His first tweet is sarcastic.








Since it appears Greenstreet was able to snag an interview with Admiral Thomas Wilson, was this screen grab one of the questions that was asked? And was the full question something like this? (The part in red is me speculating on how the question would end and the Wilson response is taken from the pic Greenstreet tweeted)

Greenstreet: “If there was indeed a USAP, and Unacknowledged Special Access Program, and you were privy to at least some of the details, would you be prohibited from commenting due to legal issues and the classified nature of the information?

Wilson: That’s correct. But the more appropriate answer would be, ‘I don’t want to comment.'”




It’s now been over ten months (May 27th) since the first interview with Dr. Davis was posted by Greenstreet and we still haven’t seen the missing thirty-three minutes, plus the promised thirteen-minute episode on Wilson/Davis.

Below are the transcripts of everything  that was posted.



Steven Greenstreet (SG): I spoke with Eric Davis, who is actually the author of one of the AATIP documents you just brought up, who was contracted…he was an AATIP employee and wrote one of the studies, research studies of AATIP. Let’s take a listen to what he has to say about the science behind what we’re looking at.

From “The Basement Office”


Dr. Eric Davis (ED): Well, I’m Eric Davis. I’m an astrophysicist and up until this week, I was the Chief Science Officer at EarthTech International, Incorporated and the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin. I worked, for a period of time, as an outside, independent contractor to the Air Force Research Laboratory at Edwards Air Force Base.

(Read the paper on Teleportation Dr. Davis wrote for the Air Force Research Laboratory in 2004)


From “The Basement Office”                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~~~                                                                                                                                                      

From “The Basement Office”


ED: I’m moving on to a new job in Hunstville, Alabama [and] I’ll be working on the nuclear thermal propulsion program for the lunar and manned Mars missions.

SG: You ultimately worked for, were a part of, the Pentagon’s UFO program?

ED: Yes, I was.

SG: In what respect were you involved with AATIP?

ED: As a consultant.



SG: With the Nimitz, Tic Tac, in your opinion, what are we looking at?

ED: Uh, in my opinion, it’s not of human origin, not of human construct. It’s absolutely impossible, compared to modern American and foreign technologies and aviation, aerospace, science and engineering. Way beyond that. We investigated all that, we advised the AATIP program director on the encounter data, the witness reports and so forth and so on. The Tic Tac exceeded the performance of anything we can produce. They are not any kind of an advanced UAV that the Chinese or the Russians or the Iranians or North Korea produce. They’re, they’re…(laughs) light years ahead of anything that we have. They have no physical, external, visible aeronautical control systems or aerodynamic control system. They have no external engine pylons and nacelles, no internal engine pylons and nacelles, no infrared heat signature from an exhaust nozzle or exhaust plume. The fact that they are shaped like a Tic Tac instead of an aircraft that would need to move through a gaseous atmosphere to produce lift to keep it afloat in the air. They could hover, they could move at…gee, estimated speeds were well above Mach 8…Mach 26 (6138 mph…19,949 mph ~Joe) That’s impossible. The accelerations that these things underwent would kill humans and we don’t even have the robotics technology today or computer technology that operates on autonomous, artificial intelligence control that can withstand accelerations like that, yet. That kind of technology we have is too fragile for accelerations like that.

SG: People will say that the Tic Tacs, the spheres, whatever…are nothing but human-made, Top Secret, black projects…that is being withheld from the public. You don’t think that’s possible?

ED: We’ve already checked into that, there’s no such thing. They don’t exist because there is no requirements for that type of technology. First of all, we don’t have that technology right now. They’re not, they can’t be human made.


SG (Talking to his co-host, Nick Pope): An astrophysicist, employed by, contracted out by the Pentagon’s UFO program says what you’re seeing in these videos can’t be human made. And the technology that this astrophysicist observed and studied is beyond all human comprehension, all human capabilities, all human possibilities.



SG: Does the government know what’s going on and they’re keeping it a secret?

ED: I think so. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of evidence that the government has known, but the problem is, it’s so outside the realm of of human comprehension that they can’t deal with it on a legislative basis, they can’t deal with it on a military, operational basis, they can’t deal with it on the basis of a presidential policy. So they just ignore it and just sweep it under the rug and let a finite group of scientists and engineers and investigators work together to either get funded to investigate and evaluate it or they don’t get funding for long periods of time and nothing gets done! They just hold onto the information and it just collects cobwebs in the classified, storage warehouses.

(The following is a transcript of the video that was tweeted and then deleted, never to be seen or heard again. Except for the copy that a few of us have.)

SG: Let me bring up…before…we’re pressed for time…tell me about the Admiral Wilson transcript.

ED: I can’t discuss that.

SG: You can’t discuss?

ED: I’m not at liberty to discuss it.

SG: Because you’re all over…you’re all over it.

ED: Oh, I know. Yeah. They were leaked out of Ed Mitchell’s estate and there’s nothing I can say about it.

SG: I mean, can you speak to the veracity of them?

ED: No, I can’t, I can’t address that at all. I won’t answer any questions on the Admiral Wilson notes.

SG: You don’t wanna speak to…at least whether these are…

ED: You know, they’re purportedly classified information. I can’t…I’m not at liberty to confirm or verify any aspect of those notes. You know, when you have security clearances, that’s something you don’t want to violate because the Department of Justice – under the Obama administration and it’s continued under the Trump administration – policies, is they will vigorously prosecute anybody with security clearances who will go out of their way to discuss any classified information that got leaked or released into the public illegally, so…or through other means.

SG: Okay.

ED: So I can’t address those notes in any form or fashion.

SG: So, Canadian Grant Cameron uploaded fifteen pages of documents (We still don’t know who uploaded the documents. ~Joe), allegedly notes taken from Dr. Eric Davis in 2002. So, whoever this Grant Cameron is…are you familiar with who this person is?

ED: Oh, I used to know him. Yeah, he’s a Canadian UFO investigator. He doesn’t investigate UFO phenomena, what he investigates is…his big claim to fame was investigating the U.S. president’s role in the UFO history.

SG: Where did he get these fifteen pages from?

ED: I don’t know. I’ve never seen whatever the pages are that he has. I haven’t seen those.

SG: Like, here is a…what appears to be a letter to you from a…Will Miller?

ED: Ah. Okay. All right. Well, he uploaded it but I can’t address any of it, so.

SG: All right, so is that a yes, these are real, these are true?

ED: I won’t, I won’t give you an answer (laughs).

SG: Okay. All right, I guess that’s enough of that.


SG: Were you involved with AATIP?

ED: Yes, I was.

SG: In what respect were you involved with AATIP?

ED: As a consultant. And then the AAWSAP program was where I was actually a subcontractor, as an employee here (EarthTech ~Joe). We were a subcontractor to Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies, BAASS, on the AAWSAP, which was the other side of AATIP. AATIP was handled out of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and AAWSAP was at the Defense Intelligence Agency. And that’s the actual funded program that received enough congressional appropriations to hire outside contractors like BAASS and EarthTech to work on the programs.

SG: Okay, so you ultimately worked for…were part of the Pentagon’s UFO program?

ED: Um-hum. Yeah.

SG: What kind of stuff did you do for the Pentagon UFO program?

ED: Oh, basically, what I just discussed was, we had…well first of all, we gave technical advice to the field investigation. We’d get information in, data on reports, and we would do physics analysis and report back on what we…what our opinion or assessments on the field investigations and data was on a variety of observations and encounters of UFO phenomena. But one big main part of our work was to hire 38 independent, expert scientists in industry, academia and government, to write Defense Intelligence Reference Documents on future transformation concepts for concepts that we can envision in the year 2050 and take what we have in our existing, really advanced physics and really advanced aerospace technology, and evolve it to the future of 2050 and see what it looks like. And see if we can compare, see if we have any hopes of developing an advanced technology in 2050 that’s comparable to the Tic Tac UFOs that the USS Nimitz and Roosevelt encountered and the other type of UFOs that the other naval warships have encountered out in the Middle East and elsewhere around the around the Pacific and Atlantic.

SG: Okay, so you said that part of your job at AAWSAP was you would get reports and you guys would study and analyze the physics behind those reports. What kind of reports are you talking about?

ED: One was a Navy laser weapon report about the development of the breakthroughs in solid state, laser weapon technology. Another one was a paper I co-authored as a second author on, extra space dimensional warp drives. So the lead author got his PhD in physics at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, on looking at extra space dimensions and drawing on quantum vacuum energy from the extra dimensions to power a warp drive. So, we co-authored a paper. Then I wrote, as a single author, a paper on traversable wormholes and then I wrote a paper on how to explore the quantum vacuum to produce negative vacuum energy that you would need to create a wormhole and a warp drive. And then I authored a paper on antigravity propulsion physics using general relativity because all that is all wrapped up into the same physics. Other people talked about smart materials, nanomaterials, MHD, aerospace propulsion systems, hypersonic propulsion, invisibility cloaks using metamaterials etc, etc, etc. There were 38 reports. I don’t have the list of them here.

SG: I have them. Well, I don’t have all of them. Only a few I think were released but I have the one on traversable wormholes. Okay, one quick thing about AAWSAP. So, how long did you work with AAWSAP?

ED: Five years from 2007 to 2012.

SG: And then it was shut down, right?

ED: Yeah, because we couldn’t get…the DIA director and the executive director were against renewing it for another five years. So, they were supposed to get another five-year appropriation from the Senate, through the defense appropriations bill, but they turned it down because they were not given enough complete information to understand what the full scope of the program was. And the reason for that is we were not sure that they would be acceptive or receptive of this type of program. So they were only briefed on superficial aspects of the program that they misconstrued to be a waste of money, or just, you know, unexplained, you know…why are we putting that kind of money into something that got 38 technical papers come out of it. Well, it was much more than 38 technical papers. And the problem is, is that you have a problem with very biased, closed minds where the UFO subject [is] concerned. Especially if you’ve got military and civilian leadership that have been raised and educated as evangelical Christians or other religious cults or whatnot, where they object to UFOs as being Satanic.

SG: Oh, yeah, got it. Nothing that you worked on, though, during those five years, was considered Top Secret, correct?

ED: It was, it was Top Secret SCI. It was TS SCI. Sensitive Compartmentalized Information. It was a TS/SCI.

SG: So the documents I have in my possession, the 38 reports…

ED: Are unclassified except for the laser weapon one, which is now…that particular report is now, I think it got unclassified or declassified because the technology is now old and out of date, it’s been replaced by more recent, solid-state weapon technology. That report was basically a survey of the existing, state of the art of solid-state laser weapons that the Navy and other elements of the DoD have been developing and deploying for testing. Okay, so that paper is now old. But anyway, all the other papers, of course they were unclassified but that’s the nature of those papers. We wanted the authors of those papers to be allowed to publish those papers in the peer-reviewed journals that correspond to their professional discipline. So, we deliberately wanted those papers to be unclassified so that the authors can publish those. Matter of fact, my boss, Hal Puthoff, had already published his space-time metric engineering paper in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society during the AAWSAP program, but before his DIRD got published by the DIA. My paper on warp drives, wormholes and negative vacuum energy, the quantum tomography, looking at negative vacuum energy in a variety of squeeze-state systems, that didn’t get published until 2013 in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society. It was also a paper that I presented in the 2011, DARPA, NASA 100 year starship symposium in Orlando, Florida. And that was at the end of September 2011. So, I presented that DIRD paper as a symposium proceedings. That symposium proceedings was being published, along with the others, by JBIS, the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, after they underwent the usual, peer review process for acceptance.

SG: Was AAWSAP and AATIP, did they coexist at the same time?

ED: Pretty much. AATIP came before AAWSAP because of the Nimitz encounter. So, almost simultaneous. AATIP came a little bit before but they coordinated.

SG: And they both ended in 2012?

ED: No, no. AATIP never ended.

SG: AATIP never ended?

ED: Nope.

SG: It’s still going on today?

ED: Yep.

SG: Who runs it?

ED: But not in that name.

SG: Oh, they changed the name?

ED: Changed names, changed location, changed leadership, so…(indecipherable).

SG: What’s the new name?

ED: I can’t tell you that (laughs).

SG: So the reason you know this is because you are still on the inside?

ED: Oh, I’m a consultant, still, yeah. I’m still a consultant.

SG: You are still a consultant for the program formerly known as AATIP?

ED: Correct.

SG: And you’re saying it’s been renamed, it’s still exists and it’s still being run out of OUSDI?

ED: I won’t confirm where it’s being run out of but generally, an intelligence program…yeah, you know? Yeah, I mean, maybe I am confirming it. Yeah, yep, generally OUSDI, yeah. It isn’t likely to change locations for any reason because of the way the DoD is organized. This is an intelligence operation to gather data, analyze it, evaluate it and recommend courses of action, so that falls into the intelligence area.

SG: I got a quote from the DoD that said that AATIP did investigate and research unidentified aerial phenomenon. Does it still investigate unidentified aerial phenomenon?

ED: Yes. I’ll confirm that AATIP is still going, it’s still owned by the OUSDI, it’s under a new name, under new management and that’s about all I can say about it.

SG: Because you are still under contract, right?

ED: No, there’s no contract, it’s an informing consulting right now because they don’t have an appropriation to fund external contractors. So I’m an unofficial…I’m just a consultant, and I’m not getting paid to do it. It’s just what happens (laughs).

SG: But you have signed some kind of NDA, correct?

ED: No, don’t need to. I have security clearances.

SG: Okay.

ED: And I’ve got a history in this business going back to 1996 so all of the…the program director knows me very well, he knows my boss very well, he knows my former boss very well.

SG: So if you are not contracted, why can’t you reveal the name of the program?

ED: Well, because I still have security clearances on the record. So, you know, under those conditions, we’re still patriotic Americans [and] we don’t like to talk about sensitive stuff. Even if we don’t have a contract.

SG: Okay.

ED: It’s the rules of the road over there, you know? You have some informal and formal rules.

SG: Why would the Pentagon say that, officially, to the press…why would the Pentagon say that AATIP was shut down?

ED: Let me tell you something about the Pentagon. It is not true that the Public Relations Office knows everything that’s going on, especially if it’s a classified program. There’s no automatic procedure by which they are briefed on everything. They don’t receive information…they’d be flooded with information that they don’t know what to do with. So basically, they would have to find out about something after the fact in order to make a public comment about it. Let’s say they’re the right hand? They don’t know what the left hand is doing and that’s how your government operates, that’s how the Pentagon operates. When they said that statement, they were only slightly correct. The AATIP, by that name, no longer exists. But as an organization, under new leadership, it does exist, with the new name. So that statement is incorrect and that’s not because somebody’s lying, it’s because they simply don’t know the answer and they did not know who to ask to get that answer to get that information from.

SG: All right. When they came out and said that Luis Elizondo had nothing to do with AATIP, whatsoever, the Pentagon said this…

ED: That was a horrible, wrong piece of public relations. That was absolutely incorrect. They did not know what they were talking about. My boss went to report to Lue, at the Pentagon in the OUSDI offices during the AATIP era. You know who my boss is, Hal Puthoff, right? Dr. Hal Puthoff?

SG: Right, so your boss reported to Lue?

ED: Yeah! And I’d been over there, too. I didn’t report to Lue. I wasn’t involved with Lue at that time but I’ve been involved with the new management.

SG: So are you guys still investigating UFOs at the Pentagon?

ED: Uh, yeah! I would say yeah, of course! They never went away! They never went away, Steve! They’re still there! They’re still coming up and causing aviation havoc because they’re getting in the middle of military aviator’s operations and that’s dangerous. That’s dangerous for those pilots.

SG: I’m gonna ask one more time.

ED: Sure.

SG: Could you at least give me a clue, nugget, breadcrumb about the current AATIP? Anything?

ED: That’s about all I have for you.

SG: All right. Okay

ED: That’s about it.

SG: I tried my best, Eric (laughs).

ED: Okay. That’s about it.

SG: All right. Thank you so much.

ED: Take care. Bye bye.



On July 2nd of 2021, Greenstreet tweeted a new clip from his 2019 interview with Dr. Davis…

SG: What do you believe is the truth? Are these aliens, are they interdimensional? What is your personal theory as to the truth of all of this?

ED: Okay, I have a personal theory and my boss has a different one. I’ll give you mine. I believe that they are alien. Whether they’re extraterrestrial, that remains to be seen, but if they’re interdimensional…whether they’re extraterrestrial in an interdimensional fashion or not extraterrestrial in an interdimensional fashion is irrelevant. The fact is, if they’re traveling through dimensions, they’ve got a home somewhere. Now where that home is, we don’t know. It may not even be on the Earth. It could be on the Earth and they’re moving through dimensions that we don’t have access to, technologically. So it’s very possible. I mean, it’s not out of the question that aliens could be hiding here in a shadow biome.

Dr. Paul Davies at the…I don’t remember the name of his foundation at Arizona State University – he published two papers in Acta Astronautica back in the late 2000s on this very subject. He said, “We should be looking at the Moon, we should be doing archeology on the Moon or archaeology on the Earth to look for ancient-alien artifacts, technological artifacts that were left behind after a visitation on the Earth.” Now he’s thinking in terms of two hundred million years ago, not in terms of UFOs of today, because UFOs are explosive language. It’s got the bad, cultural connotation associated with this topic. So, he’s avoiding that as a good, conservative scientist that he is. He’s actually a pioneer in quantum field theory and curved, space-time physics, which is the precursor to quantum gravity. So he’s in the SETI business now, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. And what he was talking about in his papers was called Search for Extraterrestrial Artifacts, like archeological technology, artifacts like ancient-Egyptian equipment and things like that, artwork and whatnot. So, it’s very possible that they’re here and they’ve been living here. Or, they’re visiting here.


Background on that photo for those unfamiliar with it.

In 1995, when she was photographed visiting Laurance Rockefeller, the billionaire philanthropist, in Jackson Hole, Wyo., she had tucked under her arm a copy of “Are We Alone?: Philosophical Implications of the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life” by Paul Davies.

Rockefeller spent years pressuring the government to release files relating to a 1947 crash at a ranch near Roswell, N.M., that had become the source of theories about a cover-up of an alien spaceship.

When Clinton started to talk openly about UFOs and government disclosure in her 2016 campaign, some activists traced the remarks back to the 1995 meeting with Rockefeller.


I think Greenstreet did a great job with pushing Dr. Davis for answers but not pushing too hard to where he came across as rude. Hopefully, we get to see the rest of the interview one day.

On March 1st, I sent Greenstreet a DM on Twitter and asked him for an update on “The Basement Office” episode about the Wilson/Davis notes. He responded right away.

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