Skinwalker Ranch

Transcript: New Superintendent of Skinwalker Ranch: “It Was A Terrifying Experience…I’ve Been Injured Severely.”

17 Dec , 2019  

“When I got to that point, I just told myself, this is all in your head, you know? Quit being a wimp. And I just continued to plow. I went, maybe another 50-100 feet, and I did have a feeling of terror start to overtake me. It’s an indescribable feeling and, and at that particular time, I turned around immediately and drove my skid-steer back over to my truck and trailer and I left as quickly as I could. It was a terrifying, terrifying experience.”

~Thomas Winterton

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Transcription by Joe Murgia – @ufojoe11 on Twitter.
Excellent questions from Chris Matthew of Forbidden Knowledge News. I’m looking forward to the Skinwalker show airing this spring on History. And Thomas Winterton comes across as genuine and believable. It sucks that his NDA keeps him from sharing more details until the show airs but for the most part, that’s the world we live in right now.

Chris Matthew (CM): Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I’m your host, Chris Matthew. Tonight I want to welcome Thomas Winterton. He is the superintendent of the famous Skinwalker Ranch, where he currently oversees every responsibility of maintaining the property, its facilities and equipment, as well as providing logistical support to its ranching and science activities. He is also the president and CEO of Resonance Meditations, a company that is revolutionizing the meditation space by incorporating the resonant frequencies of essential oils into a quick and powerful meditation experience. Thomas, welcome. How are you tonight?

Thomas Winterton (TW): I’m good. How are you?

CM: Good. Yeah, I’ve been so looking forward to tonight, because we’re going to discuss what I think is one of the most fascinating locations in the United States: the Skinwalker Ranch. From UFOs and aliens, to dogmen, ghosts, cryptid creatures, anomalous lights and a myriad of other amazing, unexplained phenomenon. And you actually get to oversee this amazing property. I know that you’re restricted in some of the things that you can talk about tonight. But let’s start with your background. Tell us a little bit more about that and how you got involved with the ranch.

TW: Sure. Well, you know, I grew up here in the Unita basin, just 15 minutes away from the ranch. And when I was in high school, it was actually during the time when the Sherman’s own the ranch, right as Bigelow was coming in. And kind of at the peek of, you know, the publicity and the notoriety of the ranch. And so I remember as high school coming out here with the dates and trying to sneak in on the ranch and, you know, see what was going on.

Other than that, I’m a businessman. My wife and I have built and operated a couple small boat boutique motels, have a film production company and general contractor. And then, as you say, you know, we have this meditation company. And when the ranch exchanged owners back in 2016, the new owners had sent the manager out here to take a look at the ranch and start to assess what needed to be done, where it was at, what exactly, you know, what kind of shape it was in. And this manager actually stayed at our small motel there in Roosevelt and I had the privilege of checking him in and the following day, when he is checking out, we got striking up a conversation where he started asking me about myself. And I shared with him that I was a general contractor. And, you know, I’m very involved in the community. And he said, you know, this ranch just exchange hands and do you think you could come out and help us look at the facilities and see what kind of shape they’re in, do an inspection and help us kind of assess where everything’s at? And of course, having grown up here and Bob Bigelow kept this ranch locked down very tight. And so to have the opportunity to come on to this strange place and go where other people were not allowed, I readily agreed and said I would love to come out. And so, came out and started to assess the condition of the facilities in the ranch. And in the process, we found that there were some things that needed upgraded. And there was some permitting that hadn’t taken place with Bigelow that needed to be finished to make sure that we were in good standing with the local government and the health department. So I helped them do that. And after I completed those tasks, then I was just asked if I would stay on and continue to run the ranch. Since I am local, and I’m close, and you know, I could I could keep close tabs on what was going on. And so I’ve been here ever since. And it’s been very interesting.

CM: Now, we first started hearing stories of skinwalker Ranch in the late 90s, from George Knapp. And it really became interesting. When Robert Bigelow bought the property, it kind of told you that something really special is going on in the area. Wouldn’t you agree?

TW: I think that’s when the notoriety of the ranch really heightened is when the local ranchers had it That was one thing. But then when you have this billionaire come in from out of state and purchase the ranch. And then, you know, when he purchased it, there was all kinds of rumors swirling around here that it was the government, it was, you know, Black Ops. It was all kinds of things that were going on here on the ranch. He closed it down. And so yeah, Bigelow coming in and taking the ranch really increased its presence on not only a national stage, but on a global stage as well.

CM: And in 2016, the ranch was taken over by Adamantium Holdings. What can you tell us about Adamantium Holdings, if anything?

TW: Um, yeah, so I can’t dive into a lot other than I will tell you that, you know, people that have followed this ranch know that Robert Bigelow kept everything very close to the vest, Not much was known about the ranch during his tenure here. He obviously we know now from the release of some Pentagon papers that there was a lot of government money that was put into the ranch, studying the phenomenon that is occurring here. Which obviously, there had to been something going on for them to be willing to, you know, put $22 million into the place (Joe’s Comment: According to various sources (like George Knapp and Eric Davis) that $22 million wasn’t just for research into Skinwalker Ranch). When Adamantium took over, I know that I’ve personally been involved in a lot of conversations with the ranch team, including the ownership. And the one thing I can say about Adamantium is that there’s a different philosophy here. There’s a great desire to be transparent, to be open. And we have a TV series coming up that’s scheduled to air this spring on the History network. And that is an effort on the part of Adamantium to start to be more forthcoming with what’s going on in Skinwalker Ranch. And I know in these conversations, there’s been a lot of going back and forth, you know, what are the pros versus the cons of holding onto this versus releasing this. And the one thing I can respect them a lot for is the fact that they feel like, really what’s going on here should be shared. And the community needs to know what’s going on, if anything. The science community needs to know what’s going on. And so…much more transparent and as things roll forward in the future, you’re going to see a lot more transparency and openness as far as the happenings here at Skinwalker Ranch.

CM: Especially with it being so secretive. I hear so many theories about what could possibly be going on there. Everything from opening portals to communicating with entities on the other side. You know, what are your thoughts when you hear some of these theories being put forward?

TW: Look, anytime you have some place that’s closed off really tight…any anytime there’s a lot of secrecy, it’s going to fuel and feed those conspiracy theories. And look, it’s it’s fun…there’s part of…I think that a lot of the…I think there’s a lot of people that are fascinated by the ranch and their fascination is fueled by the secrecy, right? Because when you don’t know, then it leaves it open to…what if, what if or this is going on  And it’s going to be interesting as information starts to flow from Skinwalker Ranch and the truth starts to come out, and the openness and the transparency, you’re gonna see a lot of these conspiracy theories addressed. And I say conspiracy theories. I don’t mean that. We’ve been handed…we have we inherited all these legends that have occurred here. And so really as a science team then, our responsibility is to try to get to the bottom. Are these true? Are they not true? Is there any credibility to these?

And so I will just say that reading on the internet, when they start going down the common threads, it makes for good reading to see the different theories that are flowing out there. And I’ll just say that, you know, it doesn’t take long for these theories to really take off gain fire and you start reading down and you can see a little bit of truth in it and then you can see where a left turn and kind of veered off the tracks. So, you know, it’s going to be great to start clearing some of these up and saying, yes, there’s some merit to this one or no, there’s not any merit to that one and start to, you know, go through these.

(Joe’s Comment: If you’ve read about the ranch, you know the phenomenon never repeated itself. So, the alleged portal incident where a large being stepped out and ran into the woods or the time a voice spoke through a physicist, were one time occurrences. Not sure how those will ever be proven either way no matter how many new scientists they bring in. No replication. The folks who had these experiences are either credible or they’re not. IMO, it’s the former.)

CM: Now before you took over the ranch, did you believe in paranormal activity or UFOs? And have you, growing up before, have you ever experienced any of this phenomenon?

TW:  Okay, so yes, I do believe in UFOs. At my time of taking over here on the ranch, I believed in UFOs but it was simply because, you know, a drone would have been considered a UFO ten years ago, simply because we didn’t understand…we didn’t know that we had a craft that can maneuver like that. And so if you were to spot a drone in the sky ten years ago, of course it would be UFO. And so, as far as the UFO theory, my brains always just assigned it as oh, you know, it’s an experimental aircraft that we’re not privy to, yet, you know? The stealth fighter…it’s going to come out…we’ll know about it. But as far as like, believing in little green Martians that are coming from outer space? I didn’t believe in that. I am religious. You know, I do believe in an afterlife and spirits and that type of thing. But like paranormal, especially like the Skinwalker portals and all of these paranormal things. Orbs? I…you know all these things I did not believe in. And so I thought it was a bunch of legends. I didn’t think there was anything to it.

And as far as having a UFO experience, you know, I have had two different experiences. One when I was a child. Like to said, I grew up here in Roosevelt and there was one night that I was up late. I happened to look out my bedroom window and there was a big, beautiful moon out there in the sky. The interesting thing about this moon…it was a half moon. But instead of instead of being like a sliver sideways, like what you typically see, it was all  the bottom half, if that makes sense. And I didn’t think anything of it…you know, I thought it was strange that it was the bottom half, but I didn’t think anything of it. I don’t really remember the exact age I was. I was just a kid.

CM: It’s like the moon was turned sideways kind of?

TW: Yeah, so it was  the shape of a half moon. But if you were to take it slide down so that it was dished, kind of like the shape of a dish, right? Does that make sense?

CM: Definitely.

TW: Okay. So I looked out the window. It was big. It was beautiful. It was orange. At the time, Roosevelt had a oil refinery on the west side of town and my bedroom window actually looked out over the refinery. And this moon was just sitting out there on top of this refinery. I didn’t think anything of it. And like an hour later, when I was getting ready to go to bed, I looked back out there and I couldn’t see it. And I just figured that it either set below the horizon or is up above the, you know, the visibility of my window. And I probably never would have even thought anything other about it except for the fact that the next morning, I happened to mention to my mom, that, “Man, the moon was so big and beautiful last night. Did you see that?” And she said, “I don’t think that the moon is out right now.” “Oh, yeah, it was big.” Well, she she was pretty sure it wasn’t. So we looked at the calendar to see and it was actually a night where there was no moon. And so I don’t know what it was I saw but it definitely was not the moon. You know, it was out there in the sky. Who knows? It didn’t invoke panic or fear or anything. You know, I didn’t even know what I was looking at at the time. I just wrote it off as the moon. So that was my one time as a kid of seeing something that was unidentified.

And then I had a chance on one of my son’s scout camps here in the Unita mountains. I don’t know, two or three years ago. We were up on the mountain camping and got to see a craft that was maneuvering in a very, very strange manner. And I was actually able to wake up the other fathers that were at this scout camp. And we sat there and watched this craft maneuver around the sky for four or five minutes. And then they went back to bed and I stayed out there and continued to watch it for probably another three hours. And so that happened in September, I think two years ago. So that’s my experience with UFOs.

CM: Now, how do you feel now about these strange phenomenon that were being reported? And have you experienced any since you’ve been on the ranch?

TW: Yeah, so…I’ll just say when I came on the ranch I  called BS. And you know, to be perfectly honest, growing up here, I’ve heard the legends I read the newspaper. There was lots of newspaper articles on the ranch. I read those type of things but I’ve never read any of the books written on Skinwalker Ranch. I’ve never watched any of the documentaries that have been made. Even to this day I haven’t. And coming out to the ranch everyone said, “Oh, you should you should read this book.” And there was part of me that was like, “You know what? I don’t believe in that stuff.” So I’m out on this ranch at all hours of the day. Sometimes I’m out here at three o’clock in the morning, working with the scientists are trying to get the land irrigated or or doing something with the cattle. I don’t want that stuff in my head. You know, I just figured I don’t want to be spooked by it. So I came out here with a pretty clear mind and very skeptical on that stuff. And I’ll just say that, here it is, going on four years later and I have a complete opposite view of everything. And I’ll just…now I’m just going to say that there’s a lot more to this world than meets the eye. And there’s obviously a lot of things that we don’t understand.

CM: Now, is there any experiences that you can tell us about that you’ve had since you’ve been there?

TW: Yeah, so, ummm…I have a couple of big experiences that have happened. Some of them I can’t share right now. I will say that I’ve heard audible, well, what I would I would call an audible voice. I’ve heard voices give me different commands. There was one night I was plowing snow clearing the road here on the ranch, 1am in the morning, and my my piece of equipment that is plowing with is very loud. Plowing is very loud anyway because the plow’s rumbling across the ground. And I happened to have my earbuds in this night and I was listening to one of my books, you know, my audible books. And in the process of going across the road on the ranch, plowing, I heard a clear voice that told me to stop and turn around. And this happened to be the…this this exact thing it happened to me six months earlier in the exact same spot on the ranch. And it’s interesting to note to that I’ve been out there that exact same spot with the dogs. I’ve been going out to irrigate and change the water. They’ll be sometimes you go over there late at night and I need to change the head gates. Close one head gate, open another head gate. And this exact same spot….there’s been times we’re going across and I have the ranch dogs with me or my own dogs and get to this spot and the dogs just stop. And this one particular time, their hair on the back just stands up and they kind of emit that low growl. And then they turn around and start running for the house. And so, you know, if the dog’s are not brave enough to stick around, neither am I. And I usually follow them and get the heck out of there. (Joe’s Comment: I’m right there with Winterton. First off, I wouldn’t even go to the ranch at night. But if I did, and my dog or dogs reacted in that way, I’d get the hell out of there right away.)

But this this one specific spot has has been interesting for me because it’s been a spot where there’s sometimes the dogs won’t go further. And as the exact spot, you know…the first time it did it…the first time I heard it, it was quiet. I couldn’t tell whether I heard it with my ears or if it was something in my head. The second time, you know, there’s no doubt in my mind. It was as clear as if somebody said it through my ears. But because of the noise of the plowing and my earbuds in, listening to my book, there’s no doubt this thing came from inside my head. So that’s one that’s one example that I can share. And I’ll just say, you know, the one thing about the ranch is, sometimes it’s not the one big thing. It is the million of little things that make you feel like you’re literally going crazy. Little things like, I don’t know, like, you know, put my drill down on on the cupboard and come in and find it on the corner of the table. Or find it on the other side of the cupboard. And the thing of it is, is that I cannot be for sure that I didn’t set it there. You know, in my mind, I’m like, I swear I put it right here. And yet, it’s over there. And there’s like a million of those little things that happen. I’ve gotten so accustomed to them now, I don’t even notice them. But they happen so often that it’ll drive a person crazy because you’re thinking, I’m sure I set it there but I don’t know for sure. So you have to write it off and those things happen all the time.

CM: Now there have been reports of areas of, you know, intense energy and places that draw out, you know, certain emotions, you know, uncontrollable emotions in people. Have you experienced this or, you know, know anyone that has?

TW: Yes, I have experienced that. And it’s quite a terrifying experience. And you know, that night with my skid-steer when I was plowing snow, I…it takes me about four passes to completely clear the road off. And so when I heard it, I just turned around and I made my second pass over to the ranch house. I was on my way back making my third pass. When I got to that point, I just told myself, this is all in your head, you know? Quit being a wimp. And I just continued to plow. I went, maybe another 50-100 feet, and I did have a feeling of terror start to overtake me. It’s an indescribable feeling and, and at that particular time, I turned around immediately and drove my skid-steer back over to my truck and trailer and I left as quickly as I could. It was a terrifying, terrifying experience.

CM: There’s also been reports of injuries and some somewhat serious. Are there any that you know of or that you can talk about?

TW: Yeah, the ranch is a dangerous place. And I can’t go into that very much at all, other than to say that we take…the reason we spend so much on security and the reason that we try to keep the ranch locked down as much as we can, is…there’s actually two reasons. And the first reason is safety. We don’t know what we’re dealing with and there have been injuries. I have been, I have been injured severely. I’ve been hospitalized. And so, yes, the ranch can be a very dangerous place. It’s not some place that individuals should be coming on to. And so we try to keep it locked down for the safety of individuals. Maybe, you know you…I did it as a kid. I understand the lure of trying to come and sneak onto this famous place and in the mystery and hoping that maybe you could see an orb or a spaceship or something. But it is a very dangerous place and after working here for four years, I understand the need to keep this place locked down. And we just strongly encourage people not to take that risk and not to come onto the ranch.

The second reason obviously, or maybe not so obvious, is the ranch is one of the biggest science projects in the world. And we’re constantly monitoring and constantly doing science here. We can’t afford to have somebody come on the ranch and unknowingly…When we have an event take place on the ranch, the first thing we have to do is eliminate all known causes of what could cause that, you know? Was it was it a plane or? Or was it a person that was coming on the ranch? And so we have to protect the integrity of the science that’s being done here. Somebody trespasses, and this has happened before, people have trespassed and they have corrupted the data that we collected. And when you can’t rule out human cause, then it doesn’t matter. You know, the data at that point almost becomes worthless. And it can ruin an event, it can ruin a controlled experiment. And so that’s the other reason that we try to keep people off. Is to protect the scientific integrity of our investigation.

CM: Do you believe that whatever this phenomenon is, adds to the danger and possibly causes it in some cases?

TW: I’m not sure I understand your question.

CM: I’m just wondering if whatever the phenomenon is at the ranch, has possibly been the cause of some of these injuries.

TW: Well, that’s definitely what we’re trying to determine, right? Like, we’re trying to get to the bottom of what exactly is causing this and so that is definitely one of the things that we’re trying to get the bottom of is…is what’s causing them and how can it be avoided. You know, can it be can be fixed? Those kind of things.

CM: Another thing we hear stories of, is people being followed home by entities or just different phenomenon occurring at their home after they’ve been to the ranch. Is this something that you’ve personally encountered or know anyone or heard any stories about this?

TW: Yeah, so obviously, when you research on the internet, there are a lot of stories of this. Individuals having this type of thing. And I will just say that while I can’t confirm the validity of theirs or their experiences, I will just say that, personally, since I became associated with the ranch, we’ve had a lot of things happen at our house. And so much so that, you know, I’ve invested in a surveillance system. We’ve taken some security measures to protect ourselves and our belongings. And I have no choice but to say that, you know, it’s definitely…I didn’t experience these type of things before I was associated with the ranch. And now we are, so, you know. To draw…the easy conclusion would be to say yes, somehow this is related. But there again, you know, everything is guessing.

CM: Any anything that you could tell us about that’s happened at your home?

TW: Ummm. Yeah, I’m trying to think of what I can. You know, I’m just going to have to have to say, stay tuned at this point. Like, it’ll come out. Yes, I’ve had things happen. I don’t think that I probably better venture into that right now.

CM: Okay, so speaking of things we probably can’t venture into, is there any experiments that are going on or anything that they’re working on that you can talk about?

TW: Um, there’s a lot happening with the research. We’re always, you know, trying to observe. And that really was…when we took over the ranch, we went through a long period where we simply wanted to observe. Because we’ve heard all these rumors. And the only thing you can do at that point is sit back and watch and see if the ranch will expose itself. If we can observe these things happening as well. And so we’ve had a long observation period where we’ve just, we haven’t tried to provoke anything. We haven’t tried to manufacture anything. It’s simply been an observational period. And, you know, we’re…scientists are actively working on it and I can’t talk about anything specific that they’re looking at or what they’re working on, but just to say that, you know, they are working on a pretty…

CM: Do you think that they’re any closer to understanding anything that’s going on at the ranch?

TW: It’s a good question. Umm, you know, every data point helps create a clearer picture. And so the more data that we can collect, hopefully the more dots we can connect. And we’re able to connect a dot here and a dot there and hopefully, in the future, we’ll be able to stand back and see a picture that’s being created. But I’ll just say that, sometimes you answer one question and it creates ten more. So…and that tends to be, what we see here is that sometimes we will be able to answer one question which then creates ten more in its place.

CM: Are you at all worried about any possible repercussions that may happen with interacting with this phenomenon or being around it on a daily basis?

TW: Look, after after being seriously injured myself and not fully understanding what took place, it’s always in the back your mind. And I do have a lot of people tell me, why do you keep going out there when, you know, you’ve had these things happen to you? And I do have to say that there is sometimes where, you know, I asked myself that. I’m like, what are…am I glutton for punishment? Why do I keep going back? And I will just say, when I came on the ranch, I had a very, I don’t wanna say arrogant, but just cavalier attitude about the ranch. I saw it as a piece of ground. Yeah, it was famous, but I didn’t believe all of the Skinwalker and all of that stuff. And I looked at it as just another piece of ground. And I’ll just say that the way that I approach the ranch now is I have a high high level of respect. I tread lightly. And I just try to be careful. But it’s always there in the back of your mind. It’s one of those things you know when you come on that there are risks associated with it. And there’s part of me now that it’s become personal. Because of what’s happened to me, because of what’s happened to others. It’s become personal. I want to know what’s going on. And so that’s my motivation for continuing. Is that more than ever, I want answers for what’s really taking place here.

CM: Now, are there any positive aspects or experiences that have occurred? You know, any, I guess, energetic experiences that brought up positive emotions or anything around, like that?

TW: Um, so I have associated with individuals that claim to have those positive experiences. And look, you know, it’s always easier to spot the negative. I think the negative is way more visible. And, you know, it’s one of those things, you know, kind of like a politician. They’re the first to get criticized and last to get thanked. You know, when things are going right, they don’t get the credit for it. And when things are going bad, they definitely get the criticism for it. And I think that’s just human nature. And so, when something bad happens, and we’re automatically looking for some place to place blame on or you were trying to find that explanation of why something went wrong. And of course, when you have some place like the ranch that’s notorious for these type of things, it’s easy to assign that. On the flip side, I mean, that’s a great question because I don’t know that if something, you know, if I leave the ranch and I get a great piece of news or something good happens, I don’t think I’ve ever stopped to think, “Gee, I wonder if that’s associated with the ranch,” you know? So, I guess in all honesty, I’d have to say that’s a great question and I don’t I don’t think I’ve ever given it a thought.

CM: I’ve heard many researchers say that the ridge and the whole area around it has a level of intelligence, consciousness, even a personality. And, at times, it feels like it feeds off of other people’s emotions and feelings. Can you speak to that at all?

TW: It’s hard to spend a lot of time here and not start to feel as if, you know, the land is a living, breathing type of entity. And I hate to use the word entity. You know, my brain is logical. It’s hard to wrap around. You know, it’s just dirt, right? It’s just a piece of land. But when enough things happen, and they seem to be reactionary, then it’s hard not to start to assign some intelligence to it. I guess as a way of coping. I would say that’s a fair assessment and I find myself doing the same thing.

CM: What about the aspect of it sort of feeding off of emotions or reacting to them as well?

TW: It’s a great question. And I’m very impressed with your line of questioning. I’m actually just going to say that this is one that I think that I’m going to pass on and I’m not going to comment. Just because it has implications with other things.

CM: Fair enough, fair enough. I understand. Now, I’m going to name off some of the entities that have supposedly been witnessed around the area. And if you can say anything about it, or if you’ve experienced it, or personally have heard any personal stories from anyone, just, you know, comment as I name these entities. Well, first I have the spotlight, which is a single spotlight similar to a motorcycle that travels about ten to forty miles per hour and typically hovers around eight feet from the ground. Have you or anyone experienced this?

TW: I’m sorry, the connection froze just as you’re asked the question.

CM: Okay, the entity is called the spotlight. It’s a single spotlight similar to that on a motorcycle that travels about ten to forty miles per hour and typically hovers around eight feet from the ground. Sometimes can be seen with a red taillight behind it.

TW: I have heard of that. It’s not something I’ve witnessed personally.

CM: What about flash drones or balls of plasma light?

TW: So lots and lots of tales about these. And I’m not going to comment on that. But yes, I have heard a lot of those stories. There seems to be a lot of people that have witnessed that. You can read a lot of those, you know, on the internet. When you start to get an overwhelming amount of people that have witnessed the same thing, then you start to wonder, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. But I won’t comment as to whether I’ve witnessed that or whether I know for sure that that’s happened.

CM: Now you’ve, you’ve talked about disembodied voices. There’s also reports of something like an invisible chopper? That sounds like a helicopter. And something that sounds like a stealth fighter. Flying extremely fast. No, it actually is a stealth…it appears to be a phantom stealth fighter. Any of those?

TW: Lots and lots of stories of cloaked aircraft. Aircraft that is coming in the ranch, cloaked. They’re stories of portals opening and craft flying out of them. They’re stories from the Bigelow era of the mesa opening up and I think George Knapp talks about the mesa opening up and a craft flying into it. There’s been rumors of underground bases here. So definitely a ton of stories and intrigue about cloaked aircraft. And as far as like things that we’re witnessing or things we have witnessed? That’s something that I’m just going to say I’m not going to comment on at this time. And with the reminder that you know, our goal here is eventually that all the truth will come out. And that’s why I’m excited about the series as I’m excited to finally start letting the public in and to start to show what we have and have not seen.

CM: Another common entity is sort of canine entities of all sorts, from dog men to large bulls and coyotes and phantom ghosts. Have you heard reports or seen anything that?

TW: Yes, definitely lots of stories and tales around that. Some individuals that I think are fairly credible that have even professed to see those things. I will just say that on that, I’ll comment and say that I have definitely seen some strange things when it comes to that area, Things that I can’t explain.

CM: Now, have you ever seen any, I guess you could say, Native Americans that seem otherworldly or that may be considered a skinwalker?

TW: Umm, so no. The quick answer to your question is no, I have not witnessed that. But again, you know, when you’re associated with the ranch like I am, it seems like a lot of people will come up, whether it’s out of community. Or when people find out I’m associated with this place, they want to tell me their skinwalker story. They want to tell me something that they witnessed or something that they saw, whether they’ve been associated with the ranch in the past, or whether they’re just a community member. And so, I’ll just say that, you know, I’ve had a lot of stories from members in the community and people outside the ranch that have shared personal experiences with me relating to that very thing that they had witnessed.

CM: There’s also lots of reports of UFO activity, and even seeing grey aliens that appear to be observing them, or observing activities on the ranch. Can you speak it all to that?

TW: That’s one subject. I’m just gonna say, no comment.

CM: Right, fair enough. Any of the other entities, you know they range from spirits like the little girl. They have water babies, which can mimic the sound of a human child crying, usually associated with running water. Something called a Cthulhu slug, which is a slimy, slug-like creature that is responsible supposedly for killing swimmers in the area. And sentient missed and of course, portals. Can you speak to any of those things that I just named?

TW: Yeah, you know, I think that’s what makes Skinwalker Ranch so special. Ss because all of these items that you’ve listed off, there are at least one if not many, many witnesses that claim to have seen some of these items on the ranch. You know, it’s not just one thing. There’s many different types of things that have been observed here. And I’ll just say that that entire list that you read off, you could go find individuals that claim to have witnessed those things here.

CM: Now, I have a couple of questions from one of my friends, Laura Wells from Laura Wells, News and Astronomy. She’d like to know if you or anyone has experienced any areas with magnetic anomalies or electronics being affected?

TW: No comment. And the reason I say no comment is, is that there’s some of these areas…some of these things are things that we want to address, especially when we start releasing information. And I just don’t want to get in trouble by saying something. I guess in these areas, I’m saying no comment. I just want to keep myself safe. I’m not quite sure where I dare venture and where I don’t. So the no comment is simply me just not…I don’t know how to articulate well enough to keep myself safe with my non-disclosure, and the things I’ve been allowed to say, versus the things I’m not allowed to say. And sometimes you get in those gray areas where I’m thinking, ehh. And so I just want to err on the side of caution. So, but I will just say, stay tuned, you know? On these things I’m saying no comment to, just stay tuned.

CM: Another question from Laura Wells is sightings of Bigfoot, which it seems to be a very interesting thing to be occurring there. But have you heard accounts of this or can you speak at all to it?

TW: Yes, so I have heard accounts of this and surprisingly, they’ve come from individuals that I never would have suspected. And when I say that, I mean people that I would have guessed would never believe in that type of thing because of their culture and their customs and those kind of things. And so, yes, have heard those things, haven’t witnessed it myself, but again, heard it from multiple sources. So, who knows?

CM: There’s one last question from Laura Wells. There’s rumors that there have been areas on the property that appeared to have chained up doors and large restraints for what appears to be large animals. Have you seen anything like this or can you speak to anything about it?

TW: Yeah, so the ranch house that’s here, the one that the Sherman’s lived in. The Myers lived in it before the Sherman.? When the Shermans came here, they found locks on the cupboards. They were locks on the insides and on the outsides of the doors. Those stakes. And there are still remnants of that type of, you know, when you look at it, there are things that stand out that you’re thinking, hmm, that’s really strange and out of the ordinary for what you’d see.

CM: There’s also been reports of, I guess, high levels of high rates of cancer from people that have been associated with the ranch. Can you speak at all to that?

TW: I can’t. I don’t know enough about that to say one way or the other.

CM: Very good. Now…

TW: I will say that the Unitah Basin as a whole, I believe, and I don’t know how many statistics are out there, but I think the Unitah Basin as a whole, has a higher rate. And I, you know, I personally have a relative that contracted, I think it was thyroid cancer or throat cancer. But was very confident or sure that it that it resulted from the nuclear tests that were done down at the Nevada Test Site back in the, I don’t know what it was, 60s or 70s, sometime they did that. And some of that fallout is known to have fallen on the Unitah Basin. And so, you know, it’s hard to say what that is. But I do think that there’s a higher rate here.

CM: Now, do you know of any type of timeframe for, I guess, releases of information and advancement of these experiments? And I guess, getting an overall answer, do we have any type of timeframe for this?

TW: Yeah, so the show that we’re going to be airing on History…this is very unique. And I wanna be very clear about this. This is something that we agreed to do as a vehicle to release information. And we have not allowed for there to be any…we didn’t make anything up. It’s authentic. It’s real. And so, that show, I think that they’re calling it “Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch,” is scheduled to air starting in early spring. So March/April timeframe. So soon.

CM: So that being said, do you think that we’ll have a more complete picture of what’s really going on that will be disclosed in this special?

TW: You’re going to be allowed to come in and see what it is we’re, you know…you’re going to come be part of the scientific journey. And I don’t want to go into a bunch of what it does or doesn’t. But the whole show is about what’s going on here on the ranch. So, it will be fun and it’s going to be a great vehicle to start to release information and let people see some of those things that we are looking at.

CM: What are your thoughts on the theories that it is a Navajo curse that was put on the area?

TW: That’s definitely the legend of skinwalkers that it resulted in a curse that the Navajos placed on the Ute tribe as the Utes and the soldiers pushed them out of the area back in the mid 1800s. So you have that legend. And again, I mean three years, four years ago when I came on the ranch, I called BS. But I think if the ranch has taught me anything, it’s that I need to have an open mind. And I before I just automatically say, oh that’s stupid, that never happened, I’ve learned better. So, you know, at this point, I’m going to say anything’s possible. But that’s definitely the legend of the ranch. And I’ll say, too, the natives believe in that a lot. I was just actually out in Salt Lake a couple of weeks ago and I was in a meeting and one of the individuals that was in my meeting happened to be a Navajo. And we got visiting and I shared with him because of my position around the ranch. I have that extreme fascination for the relations between the Navajos and the Utes and and their viewpoint on the skinwalker and the ranch. And so, you know, I told him, I’m superintendent of the Skinwalker Ranch. And he immediately just said, I don’t want to talk about the skinwalker. I don’t talk about that. I don’t want to hear about it again. And it was the end of the subject. And that was just, you know, that was just a couple of weeks ago. And I never met this gentleman before other than just, I know that he’s a he’s a member of the Navajo tribe. So, obviously, some very, very strong feelings about it. And I always want to be culturally sensitive, you know, to these cultures. I don’t want to say, well that’s stupid, you know? Why do you believe that? It could be just as real as any of the science that we’re studying. I mean, the spiritual, the spiritual aspect, the cultural aspect. There is absolutely…it could be and probably is, just as real as the science side. So I just want to be culturally sensitive and not demean or dismiss something simply because of where it originated, or how ridiculous it sounds. And I’m not saying that that sounds ridiculous. I just want to say that I’ve learned to have an open mind and I appreciate these cultures and it definitely means something to them. And so I think it needs to be taken seriously. And I think that it’s something that we need to always keep in our mind as we’re doing our investigations to make sure that we do so in a way that’s sensitive to these cultures and these relations that that are there.

CM: Now, I’ll tell you some of the, I guess theories that I have about what could possibly being it be going on there. And just speak to whatever you can about it. From everyone’s accounts and all the research I’ve done myself, it seems that there is some sort of intelligence to it, some sort of consciousness. It’s possibly interdimensional. But it seems archonic in the way that it does seem to feed off of emotions. And one of the theories that I have is that whatever it is, it can manifest to appear as whatever’s in your psyche. If it wants you to see an alien, then you see an alien. If it wants you to see a Bigfoot, you see a Bigfoot. I mean, that’s just my personal theory on what possibly could be going on there. What are your thoughts on that?

TW: Well, I think it’s a good theory just for the fact th,,t you know, when you’re addressing a ranch, a place like Skinwalker Ranch, and you have such a wide range of reported anomalies. You know, like you say, everything from Bigfoot to skinwalker to UFOs to portals. You have to say, hell what could possibly be creating such a wide range of anomalies? Because, look, at the end of the day, you have this paranormal word. Paranormal. Something we don’t understand. But really, you know, I look at it, the scientists look at…it’s just science that we haven’t yet, we just don’t understand the scientific principles behind it. The cell phone would have been considered paranormal 100 years ago because we didn’t understand the principles by which it worked. And so these wide range of anomalies at some point, they have to come back to some type of scientific principle. Now, maybe it’s a law of physics that we haven’t discovered yet, or something that we don’t understand. But they’ll have to come back. And so it comes back to your theory. Is there something that can tie it together that can account for such a wide range of activity? And so I can say, you know, you have to you have to be open minded to that type of theory, yes,

CM: definitely. And for the last few minutes that we have, tell us a little bit about Resonance Meditation and how you got started with that.

TW: Yeah, so this is a fascinating area in the fact that my wife and I have been on these – we didn’t know that they were related – parallel journeys. And four years ago, my wife had a amazing, really personal experience. My whole marriage to her…we’ve been married for seventeen years. The first twelve years…my wife is a amazing pianist. She can play anything you put in front of her. But as far as like, she had a hard time memorizing music and she can’t play by ear. So if she hears a song on the radio, she can’t sit down and just play it on the piano. But you put sheet music in front of her and she can play anything through the first time. And the first twelve years, I begged her, hey, let’s do some songwriting, it’d be fun. We try and try and I finally gave up because frankly, she sucked at writing music, right? Just like, yeah, you’re right, that’s not your talent.

In April 2015, she traveled to Italy with some friends and she had a miraculous experience. And long story short, because we just got a few minutes, she learned that she had this gift. She was taught that she had this gift of being able to hear frequency. And so, just like, you know, birds can see UV. The flower, the pollen is lit up. We don’t see that way. Our spectrum is very narrow as far as what we can see and even what we can hear. She seems to have the ability…well, not seems. She does have the ability to hear the resonant frequency in just about anything. And so she can tap in and hear you have a resonant frequency. And I have a resonant frequency. And she can hear these frequencies and then she can sit down at the piano and she’ll sit down at a grand piano and she will start to play a combination of notes. And as she starts to play these notes, the dissonance between these notes recreates that frequency inside the soundboard.

And so, Resonance Meditations is simply…there’s so many different applications that we’re doing a lot of research with this right now. We’ve seen some remarkable things. Albert Einstein said the future of medicine was going to be frequency as did Tesla. And the research is starting to show now that frequency is actually showing a lot of promise to being a very powerful healer from everything from leukemia, Alzheimer’s. I saw some research the other day where they were able to shatter some leukemia cells using frequency. You tap into something’s resonant frequency and then you amplify it and it can destroy it.

So, Resonance Meditation…she just took essential oils, which is these oils that are derived from plants. And she played, she’s played those resonant frequencies and put it together with a meditation process. And what’s happening…we’re having miraculous results with this. We’ve created this meditation app. But by putting the oil on…you put a drop of oil on your hands, you smell it. So for example, like the essential oil that’s lemon, she actually played the resonant frequency of a lemon. And she composed that sound. So you put the lemon oil on, you smell it, you play the frequency and there’s just a really simple, easy process. And people are getting to a theta state of meditation and forty-five to sixty seconds. Because what’s happening, it’s aligning all of your senses at once. And, you know, we’re just on the front end of the research of why it works. We don’t know necessarily why, but we do know that it does. And the testimonials that are pouring in, this is all over the world now. The testimonials are pouring in. These people, we’ve used this with thought leaders and people that meditate on a regular basis. People that tell us that it takes them normally forty-five to sixty minutes to get into a state where they can start to have these experiences. And they’re having these experiences, they’re getting to that same place in forty-five to sixty seconds. So that’s our company. We’re very much involved in frequency. And it’s interesting how my position on the ranch and her journey with this frequency have really come together. We have some experts out here on the ranch that are really into frequency and sound and those type of things. And so, it’s funny how the two have kind of come together and there’s a lot of overlap in the two. So, I appreciate you asking though.

CM: But yeah, that’s fascinating. And do you have a website where people can go and check this out?

TW: We do. We’re on the front end of it. So we do have a website. It’s: ResonanceMeditations.com. We have a Facebook page. And actually, if people want to go to our Resonance Meditations Facebook page, my wife did do a video where she shares her experience of how she learned to hear this frequency. And they can go on and hear her tell her story and learn more about it. And the app is on Google Play in on the Apple App Store.

CM: Very good. Thomas, thank you so much for taking the time to be here tonight and talking about what you can and I look so forward to seeing this show on the History Channel.

TW: Well, I appreciate you having me on. You asked some very good questions. I’ve done some interviews before. I appreciate your line of questioning because…very thoughtful. I’m excited for the show to come out because as these things come out, there’s going to be a lot wider range of things that we can talk about and less that I have to hold back. So obviously, when you invest as much in the show, you don’t want to do any spoilers and ruin it. So, as the show airs and as these things start to come out in the open, they’ll be a lot more to talk about and we can go more in depth.

CM: Definitely. I will definitely have to have you back on then.

TW: Awesome.

CM: Alright, well you have an excellent night.

TW: You, too. Bye

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