Bob Fish

Bob Fish, WikiLeaks & UFOs: “Maybe They Are More Like Ancestors”

17 Aug , 2021  

“Science turned us away from the metaphysical world years ago, but most if not all humans know that it exists.”

~Bob Fish

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If you like what you see on my blog and my Twitter and appreciate the time and effort, here are my Patreon and Pay Pal.

https://www.patreon.com/ufojoe

PayPal – ufojoe11@aol.com

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Bob Fish – LinkedIn Profile Pic

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My audio and comments…

Bob Fish Part 1 

Bob Fish Part 2

Bob Fish Part 3

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By Joe Murgia – @TheUfoJoe

A big thanks to Andy at That UFO PodcastRoss Coulthart and Giuliano Marinkovic, who encouraged me to contact Bob Fish. If it wasn’t for those three, I wouldn’t have written this blog. And Bob Fish! He continues to share important and interesting information.

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Who is Bob Fish?

“As a defense contractor, I was the program manager for several highly classified US government advanced communication systems’ projects in the 1980s and 1990s. These included the White House and several Executive Branch intelligence agencies. My security clearance was above Top Secret.” ~Bob Fish, via Email 

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And this is directly from his LinkedIn Profile.

“My career passion has always been using information technologies to solve complex business problems with a special emphasis on national security and technical intelligence programs. I’ve worked in all three aspects of the IT world – end user, systems integrator and product vendor – which gives me a unique perspective on when, where and how IT technologies should be applied for maximum benefit.

“My personal passion has always been to delve deeply into historical events to find out why they occurred. Linking up with the USS Hornet Museum and the Associated Aerial Firefighters provides a venue from which I am able to pursue these interests. I’ve written the definitive book about the recovery of Apollo 11 called Hornet Plus Three.

Excerpt from Amazon:

“That’s one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind….” For most Americans, that’s just about all they know of Apollo 11′s historic mission–the fortieth anniversary of which is this July. What few realize is how much effort went into every phase of that mission and all the ones before it. Just the recovery aspect of Apollo 11 was a monumental task involving thousands of Navy, DoD and NASA personnel. Now, for the first time, that enterprise is explored in Hornet Plus Three: The Story of the Apollo 11 Recovery.

Using many primary sources, such as DoD manuals and Navy directives, as well as first-hand accounts, author Bob Fish explores the details of spacecraft recovery.

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Continued from his Amazon bio:

“I’ve also authored numerous articles about WWII, space exploration, aerial firefighting and adventure travel, mostly with ALIVE East Bay magazine.

“Specialties: Strategic corporate planning, computer network security issues, smart home energy management systems, and cyber-warfare operations.”

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Bob Fish via his Facebook

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On October 7th, 2016, WikiLeaks began releasing hacked, personal emails from Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, John Podesta. There are various emails of interest to those who study and research UFOs but for this blog, we’ll focus on the ones related to Bob Fish. I’ll highlight in red what I feel are the important parts

I didn’t conduct an exhaustive search, but from what I found, one of the first, if not the first comments in the mainstream media on Bob Fish and WikiLeaks came from RT. And, as far as I know, the first blog/article from the UFO community came from Steve Wisniewski and his Cosmonautica blog. Researcher and archivist, Giuliano Marinkovic alerted me to Wisniewski’s blog and also linked me to his own 2017 interview with two U.S. military radar operators who tracked a total of eight UFOs off the coast of South Florida in 1967 for four hours. The case included multiple intercept attempts by fighter jets, visual sighting and a possible ECM (electronic countermeasure) effect by an unknown target. It’s an impressive case but how does that relate to Fish? Read on!

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The WikiLeaks Emails – From Bob Fish to John Podesta

Date: Thursday, March 5th, 2015 at 9:11pm

John –

I know you are busy as heck so I appreciate your taking a moment to read this email and put it in a file for future use.

I emailed Leslie Kean ten days ago but have not received any response.

Based on significant personal experience, I can attest that UFO hunters are looking in the wrong places.

Random personal observations, fuzzy photographers, and crop circles will never “prove” the existence of anything, especially since UFO appearances to humans are transitory and somewhat related to the observer’s state of mind.

What needs to be collected and publicly disseminated is hard scientific data collected from instruments that are known to be accurate and reliable. Within the US, this information has existed for many years and is still available today, if one knows “where to look”  and “what to look for.”  

Radar data and thermal imaging data is a good start, especially if one knows the flight envelope and maneuvering characteristics of a UFO.

If/when you might be interested  in gaining more specific information (program names) please feel free to contact me by email to arrange a phone call or meeting (I live in northern Cal but occasionally travel to DC for business activities)!

While I am publicly known by my work with the USS Hornet Museum, this communication with you is entirely PRIVATE and CONFIDENTIAL and has nothing to do with the museum.

Regards,

Bob Fish

Danville, CA

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Podesta responded:

Date: March 5th, 2015 – 9:38pm

Thx for the note. Hard for me follow up at this moment but I will keep your contact information.

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More from Fish to Podesta…

Date: Friday, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:17 PM

John – 

Just tuck this in your UFO files for future reference. 

One of the government programs that collects hard data on unidentified flying objects is the USAF DSP satellite program. 

I can add a little insight to rumors published on the web. While I was never fully briefed into the DSP operation directly, I was introduced to them as the US prepared for Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm. On occasion, I had lunch with a few of them in the cafeteria of a highly classified organization in El Segundo, CA. No one could get into the cafeteria without TS/SCI clearances, so this was not  “lightweight group of gossipers.” One of these times, a member of that group was really excitedsaid they’d just picked up Fastwalker (I assumed that same day). He described how it entered our atmosphere from “deep space” (origin actually unknown, of course, but from the backside of the satellite) and zipped by the DSP satellite pretty closely on its way to earth. Not only was it going very fast but it made a 30 degree course correction (turn) which means it did not have a ballistic (free fall) reentry trajectory that a meteorite might have. So, it was under some sort of control – although whether it was “manned” or just “robotic” there’s no way to tell.

Although its now 24 years later, one factoid makes me think the USAF is still collecting information on these Fastwalkers.  Reading the current official USAF “DSP Fact Sheet” there is this line near the end: In addition, researchers at The Aerospace Corporation have used DSP to develop portions of a hazard support system that will aid public safety in the future.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160305213638

Also, much of the information on this site is accurate although I do not know the author or his sources:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180102111818/http://ufodigest.com/shadowmag/extra/topsecret.html

Somewhere within that USAF program office is many year’s worth of Fastwalker data. If someone were to collect and analyze it, patterns will emerge that provide information about the various types of craft and their destinations, which would add substantiation to eyewitness claims on the ground about UFO activity. Furthermore, it would be interesting to understand the dates of these appearances – is there a certain time of the every year they swarm in (which might indicate a resource mining operation) or might there be a correlation with major events on earth, (such as the detonation of the first atomic bomb at White Sands in 1945 although no DSP’s existed to provide any info on that particular event)?  

Regards,

Bob Fish

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Date: March 6th, 2015 – 6:10pm

John – 

Just tuck this in your UFO files for future reference too. 

Recently, I noticed this Sentry Eagle information, even though the original book was written in 1998:

NSA document supports whistleblower claim of alien UFO communication program

I don’t know Dan Sherman and I don’t know if this non-ECI program is real. Caveat – I did work with Ft. Meade on several classified communications projects, including President Reagan’s dedication of the new HQ building in September 1986 when I was a contractor to WHCA.

But this report did trigger the memory of another event that may be of use should you ever want to follow up on the UFO stuff. 

In that same TS/SCI building cafeteria in El Segundo, I had lunch with a senior USAF NCO who had worked for Project Blue Book in the 1970s (after it had been “officially disbanded). He was an ELINT technician (electronic intelligence) who flew in RC-135s from MacDill AFB in Florida. The “normal” target was Cuba where they did lots of snooping and sometimes challenging the Cubans to turn on radar and other systems.

He said there were times when they were diverted from these missions to track UFOs off the east coast of Florida. His claim was they UFOs had a landing and takeoff spot in the ocean east of Miami, north of Bermuda. He also claimed there was a specific electronic signature (frequency) emanating from them when they were going into or coming out of the water, so they were easy to track. On several occasions they filmed the UFO as it transitioned from water to air or vice versa. One last item is he was occasionally assigned to fly in a USAF weather aircraft (WC-135) when they had a hurricane hunting mission over the usual UFO area, where his specific assignment was kept secret from the other crew members. He would always report back to a dedicated USAF intelligence officer on base when they returned from a mission. He did not know where the intel that he collected was sent for processing or storage (WPAFB in Dayton would be the obvious choice). High quality film of UFOs is “out there” somewhere!

So, if true, Blue Book was not disbanded – only the outer layer of the onion (the “public information layer) was stripped away in 1970. 

And, this may be part of the Sentry Eagle program with the USAF and NSA sharing UFO elint information. Might be some leads in that area too.

Regards, 

Bob Fish

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Podesta forwarded Fish’s email to journalist, Leslie Kean. It was the one where Fish said, among other things, “Somewhere within that USAF program office is many year’s worth of Fastwalker data.” Kean wrote back.

Date: March 7th, 2015 at 6:28pm

Another confirmation of yet more documents kept from the public. This knowledge belongs to the people under the law!

Can we get the ball rolling during this transition window – perhaps a quiet meeting with the right people – before your next assignment? I already have the perfect briefing package, and a highly qualified staffer ready to go. The timing seems ideal.

-leslie

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In the excellent book, “In Plain Sight,” author and award-winning journalist, Ross Coulthart, took a deep dive into the Bob Fish WikiLeaks information and included details of a personal response he received from Fish.

I wrote to Bob Fish and after a few weeks he kindly responded, confirming everything he told Podesta, and more. He had never spoken publicly about UAPs before. A previously very highly security cleared defence communications intelligence insider, Fish has extensive experience working on classified programs, including President Reagan’s ‘Trust but Verify’ nuclear missile disarmament treaty with the Soviets, and he assured me he was happy to be quoted about his strong interest and belief in UAPs. He clearly knew a lot more than he was prepared to reveal. When I asked him what he knew about the purported US ability to track such mystery craft, he told me, ‘At some point, the information about “alien” stuff and true US national defence information crosses paths. Patriots with clearances do not want to be traitors to their country or their way of life. For instance, if I told you the exact electromagnetic signature of a high-mach UFO that US sensors search for, but don’t attack, and you put it in a book, the Soviets/Chinese would manufacture a bomber with sigint/elint [signals and electronic intelligence] counter measure equipment that generated that exact signature. We must find a path forward that brings about greater knowledge of the truth without endangering the civilizations we have evolved into.’ The intriguing thing about Fish’s comment was the implication there was indeed a ‘truth’ still being concealed. 

Fish went on to tell Coulthart that he got in touch with Podesta because he was frustrated over nobody looking for the UFO evidence he knew existed in classified government files. He also shared a story about working in a “high security aerospace company facility” and being shown “digital radar tracks” of a UFO flying alongside an SR-71 Blackbird at Mach 3+ (more than 2300 mph) in the early 1990s. The UFO, “made a 90-degree turn and headed off in a different direction.” When Fish’s friend mentioned this radar evidence to folks at Edwards Air Force base, they, “sort of shrugged and asked that he erase that radar file as an unexplained anomaly.”

Fish concluded by telling Coulthart that throughout the years, the U.S. government and other countries have collected “empirical evidence” from all types of sensors that would “shed light on the UFO topic” and the U.S. military’s reaction to this type of anomalous data was basically, a non-reaction. I agree with Coulthart when he concluded, “they obviously already know all about it.”

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A few days ago, I thought about contacting Fish and seeing if I could get him on my YouTube show. Since nobody else besides Coulthart had done so, I figured I’d give it a shot. If someone else had contacted him, they either hadn’t received a reply or hadn’t said anything publicly. Very early (Vegas time) the next next morning, my friend Andy from the excellent, That UFO Podcast, based in the UK, sent me a DM and told me that he had written to Fish and received a reply. He graciously asked me if I wanted to share the email on my blog. Umm, yes! So here it is.

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From Bob Fish to Andy without any corrections for typos…

I am not very interested in expanding my footprint in the UFO community. UFOs are an “intellectually interesting phenomenon” to me but not one I want to dive deeply into because of some “flakey history” in the past (probably due to US government and maybe religious interventions)..

The thing I was trying to do had to do with John Podesta possible opening up the UFO files if he was White House Chief of Staff. I was simply responding to that initiative telling him “where” to look for the empirical stuff since everyone has seen the blurry shots of some bright object in the sky or heard about the silent triangle of lights zooming in the night sky, etc.

One would have to be really clueless to not think our military and intelligence agencies have been collecting information since at least 1947 (and I’d argue the foo-fighters of WWII even push that back a bit).

It seems that now, some portions of the USG are willing to drag out their radar intercept tapes and UAP incident communications. Perhaps, others will soon put forth additional empirical information about tracking or monitoring or even interfering with strange flying phenomena. So, I’m willing to wait and see on this. Someday soon we should be able to cross-refence information from a human sighting with an airspace radar scan (or seaspace acoustic scan) and a high-resolution image, whether visual or multispectral.

More importantly are the concepts that Dr Edgar Mitchell came out with. We keep talking about “aliens” as being from another planet or galaxy, like they live far, far away. Well, maybe they are simply from a different “universe” that also utilizes Earth as a home. If so, maybe they are more like “ancestors” whose culture has evolved beyond ours (at this time). Or maybe a combo of far-away visitors with nearby non-human Earthlings. I mean, does anyone really thing these little 30ft saucers flew 450 light years to get here? If so, then I guess the Earth is flat too, eh?

As we move forward with string theory, DNA analysis, gene splicing and artificial intelligence, we may make some interesting discoveries about life that inhabits the Earth. Hopefully, MUFON or somebody will get their act together, and start working on this from a critical thinking perspective and large data-fusion project.

But, that is another story. Thanks Edgar !

I did mention to others about when we cross-connected Edgar Mitchell with IRVA in 2001 at the annual IRVA conference (the Remote Viewers organization that grew out of Project Stargate). My first meeting with Edgar was literally in an isolation chamber – aka the Apollo 14 Mobile Quarantine facility – in March 2001. It was a pretty amazing conversation.

I don’t know if you’ve had any contact with IRVA but they have had a few very interesting “contact” cases that helped Edgar have a better grasp on the “alien” thing. The second generation RVers after Pat Price, Ingo Swann, Russell Targ, etc. who paved the way still get together once a year.

The hardest part of going down the quantum hologram path is understanding there is no such thing as “time” and it helps to understand there is a much broader electromagnetic spectrum than what we humans can measure and monitor. Once someone “groks” that, the universe opens up quite a bit!  There is much that our eyes can’t see and ears can’t hear – but our mind can view, if not interact with.

For Christians, its like saying the true question to ask for becoming nearer to God is not “where can he be found”? That’s already been answered – “everywhere” (which is to say for one’s self –  “here” …

Ah, the real question to ask is “when is God” and the answer eventually becomes obvious – “now”…

There is a vast living universe (or set of universes) swirling all around us … but we humans tend to narrowly focus our mind on rushing to our next meeting in 10 minutes, hoping we get a few likes on our next social media post, pondering the calorie intake of the food we are eating or worrying about the pandemic. It’s like we’re trying to make digital copies of ourselves (avatars?) … rather than expand our consciousness to a higher capability.

And yes, this absolutely has a lot to do with “UFO’s” and “aliens”.

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I decided to build upon the work of Steve, Giuliano, Ross and Andy and write to Fish. Here are my very lightly edited questions, and his replies. Any edits are because there were some things I was willing to share with Bob but not the world. Personal stuff.

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My email to Bob…

Hi Bob,

I saw your comments in Ross Coulthart’s book (I just interviewed Ross for my fledging YouTube show) and we talked about your comments in WikiLeaks and to him, that he included in his book. I “met” Ross last year when I was working on a MegaBlog (23,000+ words) about the Wilson/Davis notes. Sharp guy. I’m close friends with Eric Davis, even though we’ve never met, and also consider Will Miller (whose letter was included in the W/D notes) a friend. Was at Miller’s house in 2007. Will was nice enough to answer most of my questions about the Wilson/Davis notes for my blog. He didn’t have to do that. I know it’s risky (not in a nefarious way) for all involved to even comment on that so he did me a big favor. So, I just so happened to become friends with two of the three main players in the W/D notes. Synchronicity?

Here’s my interview with Will.

https://www.ufojoe.net/will-miller-complete

Let me know if you want links to my W/D blogs. It’s a lot.

I know (zero doubt) W/D is a legitimate representation of what was said between Wilson and Davis in 2002. But do we have an intact craft? I think the answer is yes but I don’t know that. Davis has spoken openly about the crash retrieval program.

I’m also Twitter friends with Andy from That UFO Podcast. He gave me your original comments to him for use on my blog. I’m writing it now and figured I’d reach out to see if I could get any more from you.

I studied remote viewing (Basic CRV) with Lyn Buchanan in 1997 and then took a few classes with Prudence Calabrese. I had SOME results and know it’s a great way to bring out psi data but nothing spectacular. My ex-wife (natural psychic) did well. Come to think of it, my 2nd ex-wife 🙂 did well, too! My “psychic” experiences have been through precognitive dreams. My experiencer friend tells me it’s all related to the phenomenon. Maybe.

I interviewed Kit Green a few years ago. Kit is an interesting guy and super smart, as you probably know. He told me something even his colleagues (like Eric) didn’t know. His parents had a sighting in Wisconsin of a classic saucer that came out of a lake with other witnesses around. In the early 1930s!

I cannot separate UFOs from consciousness. Maybe that’s because the first UFO book I read was “Communion” and a lot of things Strieber wrote about included various aspects of consciousness? Loved his first three books on the subject. That sent me down the rabbit hole.

I recently had someone tell me they spent time with Lue Elizondo and Lue told him, “We know who’s in the saucers, we know who’s in the triangles but we have no clue who’s in the Tic Tacs.” I ran that by a trusted source for the hell of it, not expecting a reply. And they said, “That’s accurate information.” Hmmm. Is it? Supposedly, saucers are ultraterrestrial and triangles somehow have something to do with us AND them. Like we’re working with them. And “Them” meaning whoever operates the triangles. I did NOT get confirmation on that info. so who knows?

I reached out to two remote viewers (Lyn and Paul Smith) to see if they can add to what you said to Andy about remote viewers having alien contact. Lyn Buchanan claims he saw ETs and humans working together in a classified setting and says he knows others who have seen the same. IF that’s true, that’s amazing.

Okay, enough for now. I can go on forever. I think humans are capable of much more and some of these beings are showing us that. Anything you can add to what you’ve already said would be appreciated. What the heck are we dealing with, Bob? One intelligence?. Multiple? Positive? Negative? Neutral? Indifferent? I think one intelligence has been here long before humans and is native to this planet. Once we develop the tech to see them 24/7, look out! Of course, that tech may already exist in the black world. I’m guessing they operate in an area of the electromagnetic spectrum that we can’t see. John Keel’s theory. He also felt they could create craft and bodies/beings by “manifesting” them out of thin air. I love that. Super Duper 3D printing! Our future.

Thanks for reading.

Take care,

Joe Murgia

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Bob responded quickly…

Joe –

Thanks for your email!

I don’t actually know much more than I’ve said to Ross and Andy, “know” meaning “being certain of”. After that, it’s speculation and the world has an over-abundance of that. 😊

You know a lot more about the W/D and UFO stuff than I do!

Like you, I don’t “know” for instance if we have an intact saucer. I was never briefed into that program and, very likely, if we have one, or parts of one, it’s in the hands of one or more defense contractors to extract as much info as they can. I would be as shocked as anyone else if there was an intact one sitting in the basement of a hangar at A51 waiting for the alien beings to come back and light it up.

What I do know is the USG has captured data of various kinds on anomalous objects (radar, multi-spectral imagery, photographs, video, EMF emissions, etc.) over the years from a variety of sensors, human and otherwise. And, “objects” is a loaded term – sometime they are flying through space, sometimes they are flying though air and sometimes they are flying though water. Pat Price even recorded them flying underground. And, if they are “cloaked”, some sensors should be able to infer their presence, the same way the USAF can detect the presence of a stealth jet (by the surrounding heat signature or plasma field) or the Navy can detect the presence of a submarine (cavitation noise).

My only desire is to see more data released in some fashion, so it can be analyzed in the context of other open sources, such as eyewitnesses, etc. There are high-tech companies, such as Palantir, that use AI as a “data fusion” mechanism where different types of data can be “fused together” to create a more 3rd dimensional characterization some situation or object. The Navy Tic-Tac video is a prime example – multiple radar tracks, a physical intercept, visual sightings and maybe an image (photo or sonar) of the underwater object discussed – but not released.

For example – My belief is the Tic-Tac was the alien equivalent of an RPV (unmanned), being controlled by whatever intelligence was in the large underwater object. I’d like to know if any of the ships intercepted some type of EMF emissions that might indicate a signal between mother ship and drone.

And, what you wrote below is accurate – “I cannot separate UFOs from consciousness”. It is all connected. Part of our problem in the “Newtonian-based, western world” is we don’t have words in our language to characterize some of these things, although we’re usually pretty good at creating measuring tools once we figure out what it is we want to measure. Science turned us away from the metaphysical world years ago, but most if not all humans know that it exists and only recently have university labs tried to measure some of these capabilities although projects like Stargate help lead the way for those who are interested.

BTW, Paul Smith was our target for the RV attempt in Las Vegas!

You might find these folks more “open” off the record than on since they are working hard to keep IRVA and the concept of RV alive and well as a factual component of the psi world. Getting RV wrapped into the UFO conspiracy stuff is not what they want to do.

I’ll check the URL you posted later today.

Cheers!

Bob

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My 2nd email to Bob…

Thanks Bob!

Before I let you go… 🙂

Any opinions on the efforts of Elizondo, Mellon and, when they were a part of it, “To The Stars”? I’ve been a “fan” (and very small investor) since day one and don’t see anything nefarious or psyop-like, as so many in our community have suspected. I see no evidence of that.

And any opinions on the 2019 Navy incidents (USS Omaha, USS Russell, etc) on the West Coast?

I have a good source who told me all those objects are considered UAP and if they were Russian or Chinese, they would tell us.

Wouldn’t our Navy be able to figure out pretty quickly that they were drones, Bob?

I heard (from Danny Sheehan) that Eric Davis told Senator Marco Rubio and the SSCI that the UAPTF and ONI consider all these unknown objects (or whatever they are) to be off-world vehicles. I later confirmed that Davis said that to him/them.

Would love open hearings but I’m extremely skeptical that will happen.

Last thing. Any thoughts on this?

Source: https://thehermeticpenetrator.medium.com/?p=479bd712e7ef

“Elizondo was asked to comment on a remark made by the former Soviet Air Force General Vasili Alexejev where he claimed that the Soviet military had conducted experiments in which they successfully “lured” UFOs to their location! Elizondo’s response was a sobering glimpse into the serious national security implications of the UFO phenomenon.

Carter: Do you (Luis Elizondo) believe what he is saying, and, if so, what is your guess on what that might be? What could the Russians have done?

Elizondo: To answer simply: ”Yes, absolutely”, I agree wholeheartedly with that assessment. The problem is the how. And I want to be careful not to say too much and only because I still have a security clearance and I think there may be efforts underway to continue that line of experimentation.

Thanks so much again for the response. If I fail on the record with the remote viewers, I’ll try off the record. Funny about Paul being your target. 🙂

Link below is Semivan and DeLonge from a few days ago. Semivan was solid. DeLonge has learned to be more conservative.

https://youtu.be/OBSdg3nwxoo

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Once again, Bob replied promptly.

Joe –

I wouldn’t have anything to add to this. My “super high” clearance was 1986 thru 1996 and then just TS until 2009.

I can’t fathom why anyone would even consider the Russians or the Chinese except possibly as disinformation from the US military/industrial complex to get more funding for their special “black ops” programs. The Russians couldn’t beat us to the moon in the 1960s or get their Buran shuttle to work right in the 1980s. The Chinese totally rely on industrial espionage of the US to keep their technologies “somewhat” competitive with ours.  Why would they steal something that is equivalent to a flying Model T when the UFO’s are more like Teslas of the sky? This makes zero sense.

The “off world” comment seems strange though. Why wouldn’t he say “non-human” in origin? In your mind, did he mean from another planet or star system, as opposed to technologically advanced beings that might consider earth their home too?

Seems like everyone wants us to look in the wrong places. Hmm. SETI has been at that for a long time with no results.

By using the word “drones” I mean a remotely controlled flying craft. I didn’t see any “air combat maneuvering” by the Tic-Tac in the copy of the video I saw. Seemed much closer to an “escape and evasion” flight, if not even using a little “flash and dash” to draw the pilot’s attention away from something more important, like the underwater craft.

I’ll check that URL later.

Bob

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My 3rd email to Bob…

How did/do you know Podesta?

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Bob’s 3rd email to me…

Joe –

I did not know John Podesta personally. After it became known that as Chief of White Staff he would declassify certain UFO information, I checked with Dr Edgar Mitchell to see if he was going to get involved. When he said he was, I brought in a different perspective because I thought the “quantum hologram” stuff was simply too complex for humans to absorb as a foundation for the existence of UFOs.

I felt it was better to establish a foundation based on empirical data, as the starting point for the disclosure process. Most of that empirical data is hidden in various USG military and intelligence programs, though others such as the FAA should have some as well.

Again, I personally have not seen either a UFO or an Alien. I’m just leaving tracks in the sand for others that may lead to a wider release of USG intelligence on the UAP matter for broader public analysis.

Cheers!

Bob

Note: In a future email, I will ask Bob to explain the Quantum Hologram idea as it relates to the phenomenon and I’ll share his explanation here. I will also update this blog if I hear back from any of the remote viewers I contacted for comment. 

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On the subject of alleged, alien contact and remote viewers, I found this comment from Russell Targ who, along with Hal Puthoff, coined the term remote viewing and helped create the CIA-funded, psychic espionage program, Project Stargate.

“I once visited a UFO, which was somewhat frightening. I saw an array of bodies lined up under violet light and things that looked like hair dryers. Nobody was around but it seemed very menacing. I described this to Pat Price, who told me I was in a body-storage area and I was lucky I didn’t get grabbed. There is the possibility that it might have been a hallucination.”

~Russell Targ

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Update #1 – More from Bob…

All of the emails I included from Bob to me, and vice verse, were sent yesterday, August 16th, 2021. I sent this email to him last night. 

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I forgot to answer this question from you…

“Why wouldn’t [Eric Davis] say “non-human” in origin? In your mind, did he mean from another planet or star system, as opposed to technologically advanced beings that might consider earth their home too?”

I’m not exactly sure why he says that. I think because he doesn’t think they could be manufactured on Earth, under these conditions (gravity?)? I will ask him when I get a chance.

Davis was asked his opinion about what we may be dealing with and this what he said.

SG: What do you believe is the truth? Are these aliens, are they interdimensional? What is your personal theory as to the truth of all of this?

ED: Okay, I have a personal theory and my boss (Hal Puthoff) has a different one. I’ll give you mine. I believe that they are alien. Whether they’re extraterrestrial, that remains to be seen, but if they’re interdimensional…whether they’re extraterrestrial in an interdimensional fashion or not extraterrestrial in an interdimensional fashion is irrelevant. The fact is, if they’re traveling through dimensions, they’ve got a home somewhere. Now where that home is, we don’t know. It may not even be on the Earth. It could be on the Earth and they’re moving through dimensions that we don’t have access to, technologically. So it’s very possible. I mean, it’s not out of the question that aliens could be hiding here in a shadow biome.

Dr. Paul Davies at the…I don’t remember the name of his foundation at Arizona State University – he published two papers in Acta Astronautica back in the late 2000s on this very subject. He said, “We should be looking at the Moon, we should be doing archeology on the Moon or archaeology on the Earth to look for ancient-alien artifacts, technological artifacts that were left behind after a visitation on the Earth.” Now he’s thinking in terms of two hundred million years ago, not in terms of UFOs of today, because UFOs are explosive language. It’s got the bad, cultural connotation associated with this topic. So, he’s avoiding that as a good, conservative scientist that he is. He’s actually a pioneer in quantum field theory and curved, space-time physics, which is the precursor to quantum gravity. So he’s in the SETI business now, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. And what he was talking about in his papers was called Search for Extraterrestrial Artifacts, like archeological technology, artifacts like ancient-Egyptian equipment and things like that, artwork and whatnot. So, it’s very possible that they’re here and they’ve been living here. Or, they’re visiting here.

Full transcripts/blog…

https://www.ufojoe.net/the-lost-interview-eric-davis-on-wilson

~~~

This morning, August 17th, Bob responded… 

I have no desire to denigrate any of these theories. But, let’s look at logic. Much of what ED says is true, but if an alien came from some other planet in some other galaxy with some other star system, how would they know to deal with our gravity fields, our radiation, our atmosphere, and our human belief systems?  (and lots more). Really !!

So, IMHO, these folks are very used to our “human earth” environment, dating from eons ago. And, they have conformed to (if not even fashioned) our technological advances and belief systems. Building the pyramids and Stonehenge, to the Wright brothers first flight, then the Apollo program, etc.

Now, I do not know what ED means by “inter-dimensional” – is this the same thing as the “multi-verse” or the “quantum hologram” ? If that means they live here on earth but in a level of consciousness and technological advancement that we humans barely recognize as such, then I’m with him. Yes they do. For sure.

It seems clear that in the 1800’s, the Newtonian sciences were promulgated while parapsychology and alchemy was relegated to parlor tricks and the back rooms of gin bars. This steered humanity in a certain direction – “it doesn’t exist if it can’t be measured”.  We were, in effect, scolded by our ancestors (parents) to color within the “scientific” lines. But that is an infantile civilization. Barely advanced beyond using spears to hunt deer for food and tools for creating fire for cooking and warmth..

Many folks over the ages have had a breakthrough – Davinci,  Copernicus, Beethoven Einstein, etc. – but it took 100 years for the rest of us to catch up.,

So there is some intelligence at work since the first homo sapiens walked upright on the earth a million years ago –  that we have not yet understood. Is it extra-terrestrial – or interdimensional that is feeding us this intel??

The existential question – Do children EVER fully appreciate the value that parents (or mentors) provide them in guiding them to a more fulfilling life?

“They” are not visiting here – “they” are investing in the advancement of the human race.

~~~

My Reply to Bob, this morning, August 17th…

I’m not convinced every intelligence here (if there are multiples) is here for our benefit.

~~~

Bob’s Reply to Me, later that day on August 17th..

Joe –

Well, I just finished reading the Lue/Dolan transcript.

Long but interesting!

The information in that interview was much more current and expansive than what I had access to in the 1980s and 1990s.

Luis’s list of agencies where empirical UFO data may be found is pretty much the same as what I have gathered over the years, so he is spot on.  Now, how to find it, obtain it, and analyze it in a meaningful way.

Maybe I can “retire” from this disclosure process now since my stuff is not that useful anymore! Hmm…

And, the Navy’s release of the Tic-Tac video, and the others, is what I was after all along although I surely thought the USAF would be the branch of service doing the release..

[In regard to] to whether “high intelligence” is a friend or not. That MUST be put in the proper  context. What is the Highest Priority (Existential) Issue facing our solar system right now?

It is NOT the survival of human civilization, but of the planet Earth itself. So, if there comes a time for a cleansing (or culling) of humans from the Earth, it still does not mean the “aliens” are demonic beings. Saving the Earth provides millions more years to create other intelligent civilizations, that will be less harmful than we have been the past 50 years.

Cheers!

Bob

~~~

My email to Bob on September 7th

I agree. They (assuming one or more intelligences are here) may be using Earth for their own “selfish” purposes. If they need something our planet has, they may be taking it without asking us first. I’m confident we’d do the same if we had the need for something on another world and we felt the inhabitants were less “evolved” than us and were destroying their planet and its resources. Maybe whoever is here doesn’t care about us and maybe they do. If they do, there’s only so much they can do (without open contact, which may be frowned upon in some rule book, somewhere) to help us change our destructive ways. I can’t see any other intelligence coming here and being impressed with what they see. Humans? No thanks. 

Just some speculation by me. So many other possibilities including Earth being “their” home. Maybe they’re the natives and we came here from somewhere else. More speculation.

~~~

More, as our conversation evolves.. Assuming he keeps writing! I want to know how he came to those opinions.

~~~

Here are the emails from Bob Fish to Andy from That UFO Podcast.

A big thank you to Andy for allowing me to share more of Bob’s interesting stories and thoughts here.

~~~

As discussed on the pod here is some of the information Bob Fish sent to me via email.

1)  The thing I was trying to do had to do with John Podesta possible opening up the UFO files if he was White House Chief of Staff. I was simply responding to that initiative telling him “where” to look for the empirical stuff since everyone has seen the blurry shots of some bright object in the sky or heard about the silent triangle of lights zooming in the night sky, etc.

One would have to be really clueless to not think our military and intelligence agencies have been collecting information since at least 1947 (and I’d argue the foo-fighters of WWII even push that back a bit).

It seems that now, some portions of the USG are willing to drag out their radar intercept tapes and UAP incident communications. Perhaps, others will soon put forth additional empirical information about tracking or monitoring or even interfering with strange flying phenomena. So, I’m willing to wait and see on this. Someday soon we should be able to cross-refence information from a human sighting with an airspace radar scan (or seaspace acoustic scan) and a high-resolution image, whether visual or multispectral.

More importantly are the concepts that Dr Edgar Mitchell came out with. We keep talking about “aliens” as being from another planet or galaxy, like they live far, far away. Well, maybe they are simply from a different “universe” that also utilizes Earth as a home. If so, maybe they are more like “ancestors” whose culture has evolved beyond ours (at this time). Or maybe a combo of far-away visitors with nearby non-human Earthlings. I mean, does anyone really think these little 30ft saucers flew 450 light years to get here? If so, then I guess the Earth is flat too, eh?

As we move forward with string theory, DNA analysis, gene splicing and artificial intelligence, we may make some interesting discoveries about life that inhabits the Earth. Hopefully, MUFON or somebody will get their act together, and start working on this from a critical thinking perspective and large data-fusion project.

But, that is another story. Thanks Edgar !

2) I did mention to others about when we cross-connected Edgar Mitchell with IRVA in 2001 at the annual IRVA conference (the Remote Viewers organization that grew out of Project Stargate). My first meeting with Edgar was literally in an isolation chamber – aka the Apollo 14 Mobile Quarantine facility – in March 2001. It was a pretty amazing conversation.

I don’t know if you’ve had any contact with IRVA but they have had a few very interesting “contact” cases that helped Edgar have a better grasp on the “alien” thing. The second generation RVers after Pat Price, Ingo Swann, Russell Targ, etc. who paved the way still get together once a year.

The hardest part of going down the quantum hologram path is understanding there is no such thing as “time” and it helps to understand there is a much broader electromagnetic spectrum than what we humans can measure and monitor. Once someone “groks” that, the universe opens up quite a bit!  There is much that our eyes can’t see and ears can’t hear – but our mind can view, if not interact with.

For Christians, its like saying the true question to ask for becoming nearer to God is not “where can he be found”? That’s already been answered – “everywhere” (which is to say for one’s self а  “here” …

Ah, the real question to ask is “when is God” and the answer eventually becomes obvious а “now”…

There is a vast living universe (or set of universes) swirling all around us … but we humans tend to narrowly focus our mind on rushing to our next meeting in 10 minutes, hoping we get a few likes on our next social media post, pondering the calorie intake of the food we are eating or worrying about the pandemic. It’s like we’re trying to make digital copies of ourselves (avatars?) … rather than expand our consciousness to a higher capability.

And yes, this absolutely has a lot to do with “UFO’s” and “aliens”.

3) I did mention to Ross more about the spectrum of consciousness issue in all of this. It’s breadth is analogous to the electromagnetic spectrum, of which we humans can only see less than 1%. Is it then, realistic to think we humans can “be aware of” more than 1% of the universal spectrum of consciousness? If not, then where do we fall in that spectrum? We are aware of much that is below us (rock, tree, etc.) but only a handful are aware of that which is above (Edgar Cayce being one that’s well known in the western world)..

I mean – For any person with critical thinking skills, I can “tell” you what I heard and saw, but that doesn’t mean you’ll believe it until you hear or see it for yourself!

IMHO, short of having a UFO land on your lawn with a grey alien holding his hand out in a cosmic greeting, finding and correlating empirical information is the foundation upon which “truth” is based in our Newtonian world.

But even THAT will not get you much into the alien issue, i.e., who made it or where it came from or why they are here… Can a normal person look at a car that suddenly parks in their driveway, and know who it was created by?  These days, it could have been a robot that built it, outsourced to a factory in Mexico, but labelled as GM and sold via Hertz Rentals.

So, the question “do UFOs really exist” is merely the next step on the journey to further disclosure and, eventually to full knowledge (“awareness”). Much of the rest of that journey is mental, not physical. Humans do not have the scientific tools yet to detect it much less characterize and quantify it. (hint: some eastern religions do provide psychic tools for higher level consciousness detection. Stargate is the only modern effort I know of in the US that aligns with this process of discovery).

I was lucky enough in my career to have gained information about the vast array of tracking, surveillance and sensing devices the USG had – air, sea, space and even underground. Gaining access to, and analyzing this sizeable amount of data for anomalous behavior characteristics, would provide another step towards answering that first question ….

Hopefully, various governments will be more forthcoming with the data elements they have captured via a variety of sensors that can monitor and measure things [and locations] – beyond the current 5 “documented” human senses.

4) In the 1990s I became involved with 2 other folks who were looking for a crashed A-12 spy plane CIA Article 125 also known as BuNo 928). It crashed in 1967 near Area 51 and the pilot, Walt Ray, was killed. The crash was immediately classified, hushed up and all FOIA requests redacted so no location known. Tom Mahood and Glenn Campbell (aka PsychoSpy of Area 15 fame) were the other folks!  Glenn was a Civil Engineer, Glenn was really a software analyst, and I was a network security guy – all high tech, left brain analytical folks.

We had tried everything. Glenn had heard about RV so we hired Angela [Thompson Smith] to teach us how to do it. I’m mean – we’re a pretty smart group, eh? A half day effort ought to net us a pile of top secret titanium!

On the appointed day, we were in Angela’s living room in Las Vegas, sitting on the couch as she went thru the RV protocol with us. Tom’s wife, Gerry, was sitting in the kitchen reading a newspaper with zero interest in our quest (more likely “disdain”). Angela’s husband Paul was our target. He left the house at 10am and went to an unknown destination, which he selected after leaving the house so Angela wouldn’t know where he was.

At the appointed time (11am), we 3 started trying to locate him.. There was a lot of grunting and groaning going on, almost like all 3 of us were constipated. After 15 minutes of this ruckus, Gerry folded her newspaper, set it down on the kitchen table, and said (with disdain), “OMG you guys, he’s at the beach running around in the sand with some kids!”

Well, we 3 techies had a good laugh because there is no beach within half hour of the house in LV!!!  Woohoo!!

So, we grunted some more and finally Angela said – “looks like we’re not getting anywhere so I’ll call Paul.” She did and he told her where he was. She turned to Gerry and said “what made you think he was at the beach?” She said “I clearly felt the toes of his feet running through sand and I heard laughter as if kids were nearby.” You know – a beach!

It turns out, Paul had driven to the nearest grade school, parked and walked into the playground area, which was covered with sand. There were young kids swinging in a swing set and he even helped push the merry-go-round for a few of the overjoyed kids.

Tom, Glenn and I all said “oh crap” at the same time!

What we realized is that one’s mind absolutely has to be attuned to this moment to be able to reach deeper into a state of pure true consciousness. Being left brained “intellectuals,” all of us were monitoring our thoughts, ensuring we followed the protocol, maybe treating to “beat” the other two in the game – while Gerry was relaxed and not concerned at all … and the target information flowed thru her!

More general info about the hunt for 928 is here : https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the-hunt-for-928/ although Tom doesn’t mentioned the failed RV experiment.

Now, herein lies some of the truth about the “existence of UFOs” who manifest for some people but not for others.

If you watch the Navy Tic-Tac video and don’t get carried away with the pilot’s exaltations, it’s fairly clear the controller of the Tic-Tac is playing with the F-18 pilot (it’s highly unlikely the Tic-Tac was manned, similar to the foo fighters of WWII fame). And, after zooming off the pilot’s radar screen, it showed up again at the Navy aircraft rendezvous point, miles away and thousands of feet higher (a classified point in the sky that only the pilots and the ship flight staff knew). So, is it possible some information was telepathically extracted from the F-18 pilot by the Tic-Tac commander – because it “knew” exactly where to fly and then hover, waiting for the F-18 pilot to join up! More fun and games – or – conveniently drawing the F-18 pilot’s attention away from the master “controller” UFO just underneath the sea surface.

We need more sightings like this, with human and sensor input data, to get a better understanding of the phenomenon.

That was my goal when emailing John Podesta

~~~

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~~~

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3 Responses

  1. Gavin says:

    Hi Joe, listened to the audio version, great article. I couldn’t tell whether you had checked out the archived version of the dead links in the email to podesta, but I took the liberty of digging them up and posting them on Reddit if you are interested, cheers.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/p6bcdn/bob_fishpodesta_links/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

  2. […] interesting article on Robert Fish’s exchanges with various UFO community’s figures. You can find it here. I highly recommend reading it, below is a partial French translation in video and […]

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