Transcript: Jimmy Church/John Greenewald – The End of TTSA? Or Jealous, Ego-Driven Rants?

7 Aug , 2019  

Transcript of Jimmy Church, July 20th, 2019 interview of John Greenewald of The Black Vault.

Edited lightly for clarity.


Transcribed by Joe Murgia@ufojoe11 on Twitter


Jimmy Church = JC

John Greenewald = JG


Jimmy Church: Last night, Don Schmidt mentioned a few times how the UFO community is used to spread disinfo. by the Air Force, the CIA and the Department of Defense. And we’ve been used to this. And of course, you know, we have the famous case of William Bill Moore, which I’ve talked about many times over the years. And is it possible? Is it possible that the claims of Richard Doty, on this very show, that there are currently disinfo. agents on the UFO lecture circuit? Right? Well, I think it’s a possibility. I look around after…especially after Doty, but I did this before, too as well. You just kinda gotta…kinda gotta look at everybody and listen to the conversation and how they’re dealing with things and how people talk to me. And you gotta watch this person. It seems like there’s something going on. You just gotta be aware. Right?

I can assure you of this: I’m not on anybody’s payroll. I don’t take suggestions from people…guest questions, things to investigate, things to talk about. I don’t do any of that. We do our own thing here. But is it possible? Is it possible that maybe the CIA in Washington DC have an interest in spreading and controlling the UFO information that is all over the place these days? Well of course they do. They did it in the past. They’re doing it now. And they will do it in the future. It’s always been this way. And there’s reasons for that. You know, talking about this subject nearly every single night on the show, has to be done. And this community, which is acclimated to the situation at hand, for sure. But we can’t get complacent, we can’t get comfortable, we can’t let our guard down.

And I’ve said many, many, many, many times that there is some type of controlled roll-out that is going on right now. And although it’s fun…it’s cool to see, you know, pick up my phone and go to CNN or go to Fox or RT or BBC or NBC. Whatever! Just go out there and there’s a new, fresh UFO story there. There’s a new, fresh exoplanet discovery. There’s more search for alien life. You know, and it’s it’s every single day. There’s not a day that doesn’t pass now. And it was never like that before. It never was. Today, it’s everywhere. So we have to ask why. What is going on and who is doing it? That’s where we can’t get comfortable because we all want disclosure. We all do. We all want it. In our own way, whatever disclosure is, we want it. And I get that and I understand it.

But enjoying the moment and letting our guard down? That’s what the man wants. They want to control the information. They want to control, what you are ingesting. Right? And how it gets exposed. And how it…not only gets out there, but spreads. Who is spreading it and how it’s being done. There are people that are trusted inside of this community. Are they tools? Do they even know that they are tools? Or worse yet…are there researchers and authors and show hosts out there that, quite frankly, have ego that come into play and they’re fighting for fame. And they want their name out there and they don’t care how it happens. Right? And they just move their way through the UFO community and trying to make a name for themselves. Or they know that this is something that they shouldn’t be close to. But they ignore it. Yeah.

Well, I’m gonna to be talking about all of this tonight. And it’s…it’s an uncomfortable thing to hear. But we need to hear it. And the things that I’m gonna present tonight are going to be a little bit dark at times. So stay right there.


JC: I’m gonna get straight to it. Because it’s like this: I’m more than a little nervous. I’ve sent out my subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, warnings over the last year about the message and information flooding out through the mainstream media, when it comes to the UFO question, And my main message has always been to remain calm. Keep your radar up on high and don’t jump in too quickly. When it comes to the “To The Stars Academy” or TTSA, the signs were always there. It’s too much, it’s too quick and it’s full of holes. Now, I’m not being harsh on TTSA. I just want you to listen and open your eyes and ears.

You see, the members of our community and this host, are just too smart. We’ve all been through this before, many times. So for most of us, we are in a wait and see mode before we embrace TTSA and their mission. But for those outside of our community who don’t have any experience with disinfo. agents, misdirection and bad actors from the CIA or the Department of Defense, see TTSA as a Tom DeLonge UFO project, guided by Tom. Run by Tom. After all, a UFO company run by the Blink 182 front man has got to be cool and legit, right? You know, it’s like, go Tom! And I get it. You do, too. Those outsiders lacking experience with the UFO question, who might look under the TTSA hood and see the CIA and DoD counterintelligence connections, will think that Tom’s got the people in the know. Right? Working for him. Staffed with the best, most professional agents and spies that you can put together.

In fact, they don’t care. Because it looks legit. It sounds legit. It must be legit. After all, it’s Tom DeLonge from Blink 182. He’s a punk. He’s a rebel. He doesn’t trust the man. He’s anti everything so he must know what he’s doing, right? Well, in the punk world, not trusting the man is your street cred. That’s right. Let alone being seen with someone from the other side. You don’t do that in the punk world. Seriously. It’s a very big deal. And it’s a big deal to Tom. And I understand this. This also makes Tom the perfect guy for the man to embrace. The CIA and DoD had been waiting for the right person for a very long time. And quite frankly, he was a gift. There is no doubt that Tom DeLonge is serious about UFOs, though. He has talent. He has…he’s a real artist. And with that comes passion. And when you have the success that he has had, it means that truckloads of money come along for the ride. Anything that you want to do, well, you just do it. You can do anything.

Well, this is where the CIA and counterintelligence professionals come in. There is one thing that they are all taught from the word go: When you have someone that you need on your side, you stroke them. It’s their first priority. Their first priority is to make you feel special, That it’s all about you. You are the best. You are respected. You are the only one. And that’s how they got to Tom. And I get that. I’ve heard him say it. And so have you. In our interview on Fade to Black, he stressed this many times. And I understand it. But Tom isn’t the only one, by the way. He’s not. And I can assure you that there are those over at TTSA that have said all of those things, right? Anybody out there waving the flag for the academy, TTSA, they hear it. They hear that they are the best journalists. That they’re the best authors. They’re the best researchers. That they have their respect. And who doesn’t wanna hear that? Well, we all do. And the CIA and counterintelligence agents know this. It’s how they roll.

Now, I’m not going to disclose anything private that was discussed between TTSA and myself over the years. I won’t do it. That’s not cool. But I will say this: I have had many, many conversations with top members of this community. And they’ve all told me the same things when it comes to TTSA. That TTSA loves me. Not me, Jimmy. I’m talking about the researchers, the authors. That they love them. They respect their work. They know how professional they are in that the community listens to them because they know that they can trust them. You know, and I’ve heard this so many times now, it’s almost scripted, word for word. This is what scares me the most. And it just seems…it just seems that there is an actual CIA counter-intel, DoD machine up and running for real. This isn’t some Tom Clancy, Clive Cussler spy novel fiction, for fun. This is reality.

And remember, this is my opinion. I don’t have some insider at the CIA feeding me classified information. I don’t have someone at TTSA speaking off the record. In fact, I’m only using the facts as presented by TTSA and their public records, their statements and their presentations. For me, it isn’t bending and molding things in a certain way to make it seem like there is something going on. No. In fact, you don’t even have to do that sort of stuff. You don’t have to use your imagination and go full on conspiracy. No, you don’t have to do it. You just have to read it for yourself. So, if you don’t think that “To The Stars Academy” is a fully staffed CIA, DoD, counter-intel company, put together for some crazy UFO agenda, listen to this:

Here are 9 of the 12 key staff for “To The Stars Academy,” their TTSA job title and their work experience.

At the top of the list, number one, is Tom DeLonge, chairman of the board, Interim CEO. Interim. We’ll get to that interim title in a minute. Stay right there.

Number two is Jim Semivan. He’s Vice President of Operations for TTSA. Vice President. He has 25 years as Operations Officer for the CIA’s Directorate of Operations. He’s also a trainer for the CIA and its trade craft, encountering weapons of mass destruction.

Number three, Steve Justice, Chief Operations Manager. That’s right. Thirty-one years at Lockheed Skunk Works, advanced systems, concept design, breakthrough tech development. And you know, he’s got security clearances and oaths.

Doctor Hal Puthoff, Vice President of science and tech for TTSA. Fifty-years at General Electric, NSA, the National Security Agency and worked for the CIA while he was at the Stanford Research Institute.

Then there’s number five: Luis Elizondo. His job title is Director of Global Security. That’s right. That’s his job title at TTSA. His experience…career intelligence officer, U.S. Army, Department of Defense, national counterintelligence executive, the Office of Director of National Intelligence, and allegedly, Program Element Manager for AATIP. Whatever that means. Thought he was the director. More on that in just a bit.

Then there’s Chris Mellon, national security adviser, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and Bush administrations. And yes, Melon of the Melon banking family.

Number seven: C. Chris Herndon. United States government and Department of Defense tech coordination. That’s his job title for TTSA.
Of course, he was director of White House information technology for President Trump.

Number eight: Dr. Norm Khan. His job title at TTSA is national security. Thirty-years at the CIA and a recipient of the CIA’s distinguished career intelligence medal.

Number nine, Dr. Paul Rapp. His job title for TTSA? Brain function consultant. Think about that. What does he have under his belt? Well, he’s got a CIA Certificate of commendation.

Now, there are so many takeaways from this list and its facts. But the first thing that stands out for me is DeLonge’s interim CEO title. You need to think about this for a second because if he is replaced as CEO by say, Jim Semivan, that would make “To The Stars Academy” a full on CIA operation. DeLonge is the only real civilian on this list. And he’s the odd man out. Who would the board replace him with? Now it’s pretty safe to say that it won’t go with another singer or musician from a supergroup. I don’t think so. But Dave Grohl would be cool, you know, Foo Fighters. He’s got loads of loads of street cred. Anyway, it’ll be another lifelong, career intelligence officer that will take over as CEO. Someone with a security clearance and oath and deep, dark connections. That’s a guarantee.

The next thing that really stands out on on this list is all of the national security job titles and experience. And you have to ask yourself, why? What…what’s the deal? This is a UFO company, right? One thing is for sure: It fits the message of threat that has been all over the media and History Channel with the series, “Unidentified.” It’s been all over the mainstream media. Threat, threat, threat. Naval pilots. Right? Briefings for the Senate. The President. Threat. It’s a threat! They’re a threat. That’s why. Honestly, it’s the only word and view that these types of career agents understand. Everything is a threat to them. It’s how they roll.

The third thing that stands out is the lack of research partners. That’s right. Research talent. It’s all defense. It’s all military. Its spies. And that appears to be the focus. Well, not appears. That’s wrong. It is the focus.

Now, during the live stream back in October of 2017, for the launch of “To The Stars Academy,” at that time, it was all about using your investment dollars from stock purchases…that this amazing alien technology was going to be developed for us, for everyone around the world, right? Anti-gravity airliners, right? Wrong. It’s been two years and the only things developed by “To The Stars Academy” were a TV series, a couple of books and nice fat salaries. And of course, lots and lots of stock and stock options for the crew there at To The Stars. How much of the investor cash has been used for marketing? For public relations? Promotions? Versus actual development of well…anything? What is that ratio? What is that ratio of the stock money that came in, that just went to salaries? Right? That went to marketing and publicity for their own benefit. Not for the benefit of us. But for them as individuals. You know, you throw in the salaries, and that ratio shrinks down to almost nothing. I’m going to be very interested in the…with the next financial disclosure filings at the end of the year for To The Stars. It’s going to be very, very telling.

I don’t know how to look at all of this right now. I don’t. Who’s gonna replace Tom DeLonge as CEO? Who’s gonna replace Tom? When we talk about a CIA-fronted company…right? Because that’s the case. And if they bring in somebody…and they’re probably listening to me right now, and they’re going, “You know what? Church is right, man. Let’s take some notes here. Our next CEO cannot be CIA. It’s going to be too obvious. So we’re gonna have to bring in somebody that is not, you know, Defense Intelligence Agency…can’t be NSA…can’t be CIA. Can’t be DoD…can’t be MIA.” Can’t be any of that stuff! Can’t. Can’t. Because then it’s obvious. If that happens, it’s a full on, CIA corporation. Spreading disinformation. (laughs) That has its own television show

Who will be added to the staff at TTSA? That’s the other question. Will it be more of the same? Right? People and talent with close ties to the Department of Defense…to Washington, DC and the CIA? Is that what is next? Is that how it’s going to continue to be compiled because that’s what it is now. This is where it gets even stranger. Because this is a full on disinfo. campaign. And it is wholly controlled by the Department of Defense and the CIA. Wholly. Wholly controlled. It’s those journalists, those researchers, those authors and show hosts that have cozied up to TTSA. Right? They are the ones that have the most to lose. How will they be able to face the nation when the reality hits the fan that they’ve represented the CIA, written for the CIA… (laughs) a CIA from outfit. Like the United Fruit Company, from 1964.

Do you dig it? Do you understand what I’m saying? Those out there that that have and I’m not going to…there’s no sense in mentioning names or going down that road. If this is my warning to all of them, you need to be careful here. Eventually, it will get exposed for what it is. And you’re gonna have to turn around and face your friends in the UFO community…your audience in the UFO community and go, “Well, I wholly supported and got paid by and have stock in a CIA front company that was controlling disinformation out to the world on the UFO agenda.” Because that’s what it appears to be. It doesn’t appear to be anything else but that. And I keep saying the word appear. I am basing it on fact. I’m not…I’m not…I’m not just going down some conspiracy rabbit hole here. They are going to have to face that. You need to back up and just, and, and, and….

Look, this is the other thing. I’m gonna go back to this list in just a second.
Need to go back and realize something. That the promises of money, of stock in the company and the growth, right? We’re gonna give you 50,000 shares, we’re gonna give you 20,000 shares, we’re gonna give you 100,000…a half a million shares…a million shares, you know? And those shares are worth 10 cents each right now, but what if they go up to $1? What if they go to $2? What if they go to $10 and that’s the appeal to somebody out there that has been in this community or a government employee, making $50,000 a year, $60,000 a year. And suddenly, you know, you’re retired and you’re sitting on, you know, a half a million shares of stock in a company that is going to double, triple…which is nothing. It’s nothing to go from 10 cents to 50 cents. But, if you think about it, 50 cents a share. $1 a share…but you’re sitting on something that had an initial value of nothing at the stock offering? And then you’ve got stock options in the future. That to somebody is a way to come in and go, “Yeah, I’ll be a part of this action.” Because they’re already in the in the circle. They’re in the group. They come from counterintelligence, they come from the CIA, they come from the Department of Defense, with those government salaries. And suddenly, they’re in the private sector getting offered, you know, this kind of incentive and bonuses. Money they’ve never seen before. Except for Chris Mellon. And that’s another point. Right?

Now for those out there that are going to say, “Jimmy, you’re being critical on TTSA.” I am not. In a couple of years. A couple of years go by and they actually turn out to be who they are trying to say that they are, which
is our friends and they’re moving the UFO agenda forward. I have not heard anybody say…anybody from TTSA, that UFOs are real and they have the proof and they are part of the government and they’re bringing this information forward. No. No, that has not happened. They’re controlling the information. They’re controlling the minds. That’s what they’re doing. And they’re doing it through the media. They’re doing it through social media. They’re doing it through television and programming. They’ve got a couple of documentaries, allegedly, in production. And nothing about alien technology or anything else. Metamaterials. Right. Seriously.

Now, for those out there that are gonna go, “Jimmy. No. No.” Those critics.
I’m wondering who is behind those posts. And who those people are that are doing that. Trying to continue to control this agenda. Trying to control the message. That’s where…and every time that I see that, I know that I’m right. I know that I’m right.

Now, I wanna go over this list one more time. So you understand where I am coming from. This is nine of the twelve, key staff listed on “The To Stars Academy” website. Their job titles posted by “To The Stars Academy.” Their experience posted by the “To The Stars Academy.” I didn’t go to Wikipedia. I didn’t go to somebody else’s website. I didn’t listen to somebody else. This is from To The Stars themselves.

Again, Tom DeLonge, interim CEO. He’s gonna get replaced. I don’t know by whom.

Number Two: Jim Semivan. 25 years as Operations Officer for the CIA’s Directorate of Operations. He’s also a trainer for the CIA. It’s tradecraft: encountering weapons of mass destruction.

Number Three: Steve Justice, Chief Operations Manager for TTSA. 31 years at Lockheed Skunk Works, advanced systems, concept design, breakthrough tech and development. Again, I wanna stress the security clearances and oaths that he is under.

Number Four: Dr. Hal Puthoff. Vice president of science and tech for TTSA. 50 years at General Electric, the National Security Agency and worked with the CIA while he was at SRI.

Number Five: Luis Elizondo. Director of Global Security. That’s his job title at TTSA. Career intelligence officer, U.S. Army, Department of Defense, national counter-intelligence executive, the Office of Director of National Intelligence. And is allegedly, the program element manager for AATIP. And again, whatever that means. Thought he was the director of this thing.

Chris Mellon, National Security Advisor. What do you need that for?
Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in both the Clinton and Bush administrations. And once again, he is a Mellon of the Mellon banking family.

Then there’s C. Chris Herndon. United States government and Department of Defense tech coordination. That’s his job title for TTSA. He was the director of White House information technology for President Trump.

Number Eight: Dr. Norm Khan. His job title for TTSA, once again, national security. He spent 30 years at the CIA and was the recipient of the CIA’s distinguished career (laughing as he reads it) intelligence metal. He’s a spook!

Dr. Paul Rapp. His job title at TTSA is brain function consultant.
He’s also in the possession of the CIA certificate of commendation.

If this doesn’t scare you, the interim title, the interim title of CEO for Tom DeLonge, when he gets replaced, who does he get replaced by? And if the natural thing to assume here that it would be Jim Semivan. And if that is the move that happens, we have a wholly owned (laughs) board of directors of the CIA.

Make no mistake. These are the facts. And you just need to go and and click on the team at “To The Stars Academy” and read through that. Because this is word for word from their very own website.

So, Don Schmidt, right? Is Richard Doty right? They are.  I am your host Jimmy church.


JC: Did you hear everything? You need to listen? Keep your eyes and ears open. That’s all that I’m saying. That’s all that I’m saying. And I want to welcome to the show right now. John Greenewald of The Black Vault. John, good evening.

John Greenwald: Hey Jimmy. It’s good to be here.

JC: Yeah, it’s good to hear your voice. Okay, here we go, John. Now,
this is…we’re just gonna have a little conversation tonight.

JG: Sure.

JC: There’s a lot of stuff that been going on and, and you…not only with The Black Vault, but you’ve got your radio show and you’ve got your contacts and your people out there. And you converse and you see what is going on. And I’m gonna ask you a couple of things. Last night. we had Don Schmidt on the show. And Don has been at this for a very, very long time. And he has, you know, he went through all of the the Bill Moore stuff and and MJ-12. He goes all the way back to CUFOS and J. Allen Hynek and Project Blue Book. He’s seen it all. And he’s still here trying to get these answers. But one of the things that he said last night was that, you know, they do control the information. They’ve always controlled the information. They’ve gotten very, very good at it. And right now, there’s a huge rollout with the UFOs and what is going on. And we just have to ask ourselves why. And we have to be very, very careful. And he’s right about that.

And then, going back, six months ago, maybe a little longer, Richard Doty called into the show one night. Called in. He wasn’t a guest, he called in. And one of the things that he said…he said a lot of things. One of the things that he said was that there were two, that he knew of, two prominent speakers on the UFO lecture circuit that were disinfo.. Right? Now, immediately, so…you know, the alarm bells went up. A lot of people heard this. My phone is ringing the next day. I call everybody. I call Stanton Friedman. I call Linda. I call Dolan. You know, and I…and then half a dozen other people. And they all said the same thing. Well, who do you think it is? You know, it’s not me, Jimmy. It’s not….right? (laughs) It’s not me. Is it you? Is it you? And it kind of freaked everybody out. And that is also a form of disinfo., right? To cause everybody in the UFO community to look at everybody differently and suspect and do all of that. It’s just a brilliant tactic on Doty’s part to suggest this and it freaked everybody out.

But it takes me to the point where, John, that there is no question that the information is controlled. And here we have a situation right now with a company like TTSA that is wholly and fully staffed by counterintelligence and the CIA. And you have to ask yourself, what is actually going on with that? When you look at the staff at TTSA, are there red flags for you?

JG: There’s lots of red flags to be blatantly honest with you. I listened to your overview of their upper echelon and the connections to the CIA. And and I don’t…I will say I don’t think I necessarily agree with 100% of what you were saying. But there are fascinating connections there…number one. But number two, I think you’re spot on on how they, meaning TTSA, treats their inner circle, right? The people that tout their company line. And that’s where you and I really do align, it’s sounds like. Because they have sucked people in that do feel important. And I think that it would behoove those that are big fans of TTSA that have kind of really attached their names to the story, to research counterintelligence and tactics that those tactics will employ in the field. And that is getting people to trust you. People being called out from the audience. When, let’s say, Luis Elizondo is speaking, make somebody feel special and important. And so, whether it’s willing or…or knowing or unknowing, that particular person being called out, now is not necessarily going to start doing, you know, really scathing pieces and digging in. They’re gonna really kind of tout the line a little bit. And they’re gonna sing the praises.

Now that’s okay for a PR agent, but it’s not for a journalist. But again, those tactics that are that are being implemented by TTSA – which sounds conspiratorial, but I’m sorry it’s not – are very smart. I’m not gonna say it’s dumb or shady. It’s just smart, you know? Well shady may be debatable. But it’s, it’s, it’s getting as many people as you can on your side. That way you don’t have to fight the battles. You don’t have to take the tough questions. Because you’ll see, some are journalists, others are what I call quote/unquote,  “journalists.” You know, they kind of pretend to be, and they’re out there. They’re the ones that are engaging on social media, and getting into Twitter battles and firing shots at me or you or, or whomever speaks ill against TTSA. So that’s where I say that, that kind of marketing aspect is very, very smart. Because those people are the guns. They’re not connected to TTSA as a board member, or somebody that is, you know, wearing a TTSA name badge. They just want to be. And so they’re the ones out there.

So again, that part, you know what, removing myself and my personal thoughts and reservations, is very, very smart. And they’ve succeeded with some of these people that have been around in the UFO field. Some of which were friends of mine at one time. And literally, I mean, I’ve, it’s, it’s sad to say, but like, people will lose friendships like…I have lost friendships, not by my choice, by people that, instead of just agreeing to disagree or having a friendly conversation like you and I.  Cause again, you and I aren’t gonna agree on 100%.

JC: And we don’t. You know, let’s be very clear. Can I just throw the two of us under the bus a little bit? John and I talk a lot. I would say that we disagree on most of what you and I talk about. (laughs) We literally do. And that’s okay. Right, that kind of dialogue…listening to the other, you know, the other side of the other opinions of the other research, is how you move forward. You know, I always listen to you. I don’t always agree. (laughs)

JG: But that’s the fun of it. Right?

JC: Right.

JG: That is the amazing part of this field. That we can have that conversation, you and I could be on the air. We can have a private telephone conversation. We can be having a barbecue, drinking a beer. Whatever. And we leave at the end, friends.

JC: Right.

JG: But one thing that TTSA, and I don’t blame [them] for this, I really genuinely don’t think they had any intention to do this part. But one thing that they have achieved more than all else is divide the UFO community with such a firm, deep line in the sand that separates people that are out there touting the TTSA line and people like me who are asking questions that I feel are important, and that should be addressed. And that line has never been deeper than it is right now. And, and again, I don’t think that they intended that, but it happened anyway. And that is amazing to me because they have, and that’s where again, I said that it was a very smart move, to get as many people on their side that would fight those battles for them that were removed from the company. They feel special. They’re being called out. I bet you that they’re being fed insider information. And I don’t want to put any accusation out there of people by name, but I’ll bring ’em up. Brian Bender from Politico and his story with the UFO guidelines and this and that, who appeared on “Unidentified,” is a fascinating figure to look at from a major…a real journalist.

I got nothing against him personally or professionally. But I bring him up because when you look at his connection being on-camera for “Unidentified,” that was a smart move for TTSA. I mean, I don’t know firsthand who really kind of orchestrated that, but obviously Bender’s been involved from the beginning. And he has been fed this inside or quote/unquote, “insider information” to be one of the two outfits that broke this story. Now fast forward nearly two years later, he’s on camera on the television series. And here’s what’s interesting: He is quoting the Pentagon except when the Pentagon says something bad about against TTSA. And I’m sure we’ll get into that. But then he omits that. As a journalist, you can’t do that. You just can’t. If you are an unbiased person, number one, it’s questionable to appear on a television series that controversial. It really is.

If it was more of a historical or, you know, a political era and and you know, Mr. Bender covered that in depth, okay, that makes sense. I mean, I’ve produced a lot for History Channel. Those are the guys you go for. But on something this controversial and you and you put him front and center. What do you do? Now you make him a TV star, right? Even though he wasn’t the star of the show, don’t get me wrong. But to somebody who’s not on TV all the time, that’s how they feel. I know that for a fact because I’ve worked with people like that. And so when you do that…now what happens when the Pentagon says, “Well, Mr. Luis Elizondo had no responsibilities on AATIP,” right? They fire the shot across the bow, and they say, look, we’ve had enough. So this attention that’s all this is getting. Yeah, there is some truth to the UFO thing, right? Everybody flipped out over it. And the second part of the statement was, but, Luis Elizondo had no responsibilities on this program. And then it’s like, “Ooh, that’s, you know, there’s a mass conspiracy to, to take down one guy, and this is…the Pentagon doesn’t know what they’re doing. And this is a conspiracy.”

It’s like, well, wait a minute, you know, just a week ago, the same person from the same office said something that you praised to high heaven, it was gospel. There’s no way that they would be making something like that up. But then all of a sudden, you know, the same person comes out with a different statement. And they’re like, “No, no, press officers don’t, you know, they don’t know anything.” And so it’s a very selective belief system, which is hurtful and harmful. Now, I would expect that from the bloggers and from people that pretend to be journalists. That’s fine.

JC: Not Bender. Not Bender. Not at his status.

JG: Not at all.  And from somebody from that status. And so for me, I try and remove myself from again, because I get emotional about this. It’s personal. I’ve been involved in the UFO field for 23 years. Of course I care about what people are talking about. And so I try and remove myself and I look at it and I go, that is fascinating. A major mainstream outlet. Oh, by the way, because this is public. I mean, I’m not blowing anything that was private. But Bryan Bender blocked me. And I and I…after he and I had conversations. And I wrote him and I said, “Hey, man, I didn’t say anything to you. Like, what’s this all about?” He was mad that I forwarded an article, retweeted an article on Twitter that had quoted the Pentagon statement about Luis Elizondo. That was it. And he told me that that was the reason. And it’s like, well, wait a minute, why are you so afraid to cover that? You can refute it. You can disprove it, and and yet he blocked me amongst others.

JC: Also for clarity here. Didn’t he delete a tweet of his?

JG: Absolutely. So the short of it is, on June 1…so that was an early Saturday morning. The Intercept dropped the article that revealed the Pentagon statement. And that was Luis Elizondo had no responsibilities. Sunday night, on the second, Bryan Bender said, expect a new statement this week. And it will essentially put this issue too bed.

I’m paraphrasing there. But it essentially put the issue to bed. But he promised that week that a new statement was coming. So I wrote Bender, not only publicly but privately, and I said, “How would you orchestrate a new Pentagon statement on a weekend and promise it to the world?” Like…how is…what are you…And I wasn’t challenging him? I was genuinely asking. Because when that statement was was published, I didn’t believe it. As many red flags as I’ve had about that organization, I did not expect that and I did not believe it. I honestly didn’t. And I independently verified it to make sure. And it was true. And I but I was…I mean…I was flabbergasted. I truly was. And and that’s hard for me to say because I’ve had so many reservations about this story. And I didn’t believe it at first.

And so when Bender posted that, I said, okay, well then here we go. And that week came and went. The next week came and went. And I believe I’m getting too far ahead chronologically, but George Knapp had, I believe, about a week later. I think it was Wednesday, if memory serves. That next Wednesday after The Intercept published our article, with a new version of a 2009 Harry Reid letter, that according to him, proved that Luis Elizondo did head the AATIP program. And then further, it disproved “The Intercept” and their claims. So I took that letter to the Pentagon. And again, we’re expecting a new statement and that never came. So then this letter pops up. So, I mean, a lot of people won’t believe me, but I was looking to change that statement. And the reason was because that does more damage to this entire story than anything I have ever brought up. (laughs) And, and some people hate me for bringing up certain things. In my opinion, if this does turn out to really, genuinely be true and Mr. Elizondo has embellished to the point of fabricating his background…if that turns out to be true, in my opinion, that will be more damaging to this entire story than anything else. And so I did truly, genuinely aim to at least put that to bed so we could move on to the questions that I felt were still pressing. And so I took that letter and I sent it to the Pentagon. And to my surprise, not only did they verify the letter, they had no problems admitting that that was a legitimate letter. They verified it in an official statement to me. They said, yes, that letter is real. And no, it does not change anything. And that, to me is is a very important aspect to the story that people need to pay attention to.

JC: Yeah, what I find interesting here, John, is that TTSA and I’m being very direct here. TTSA does not want to answer questions. What they want to say, and what they continue to say is, “You know what, you’re missing the big picture here.” You know, “Let let us handle this. Don’t ask questions.” And that’s the opposite of what this country and excellent journalism stands for. That we are entitled to ask questions. And that’s it. And when somebody says, you know what, no, no, no, not right now when you know what, nah, that’s not important. Well, you know what, then answer the question, and we can move on. But don’t say, to back off, you know. Don’t…you can’t do that. And that’s what it tells me that we’re, we’re asking the right questions, you know? And my list of questions to TTSA still to this day remain unanswered. And for anybody out there that calls themselves a journalist, that is in the presence of anybody at TTSA, and isn’t asking the obvious? Then you have to wonder really what’s going on. Because they just want to be surrounded by yes people. And that’s wrong to me, John. And that’s where it just scares me about what actually may be happening over at TTSA. I should allow you to respond. But I want you to respond to this first and then we’ll continue. What is this interim CEO?

JG: Yeah, you know, I wish I had a good answer for you. I don’t know. I have a guess. And then I’m going to defend Tom DeLonge on this. But I could be way off. I genuinely just don’t know. My guess is obviously with the Angels & Airwaves thing that he’s doing. And he’s gotta…he’s a very successful guy. I’ve got nothing against Tom. And on the contrary, I’ve often defended that I feel that he’s a very genuine person in this. And he probably does have a genuine objective here. That’s not true, I think, for every name involved. But I do think that there’s a very genuine core to what he’s doing.

JC: I couldn’t agree with you more. I could not agree…I…his interest in UFOs and trying to get to the bottom of this, is genuine. Not probably genuine. Not maybe. It’s for real. You know, he’s got real passion in the game here.

JG: And there’s a gullibility aspect to all of this, that I think, you know, kind of hurts him a little bit. But hey, I think he’s, he’s genuine. So that being said though, he’s a very, very successful guy. Has been for a long time. He’s very, very smart. And so I think that maybe, quite possibly, he just has to focus on what’s gonna bring in the most money for him. And, so I think that TTSA is, is not doing that. And so if “Angels & Airwaves” or whatever other business opportunity that he has, that may be, will get more attention from him, then I give him respect for saying, “Okay, this Corporation B I need to put that aside. Let’s bring somebody in who can run this because Corporation A for me, is more beneficial for me, my family, my kids, whatever.” So I respect that. I’ve got no issue. If there’s some kind of other, you know, sinister objective that comes out later, I’ll stand corrected. But I think he’s just a very successful guy. And truth be told, TTSA and that corporation, the corporation intent with trying to raise $50 million on the first offering. And I thought it was $2.5 million but from what I understand from the SEC filings, it was only about a million and a half.

So they’re wildly off target there. And then here we are, you know approaching two years later. They’re doing another round of trying to raise $30 million, I believe it is. And I don’t think that they’ll raise as much money. I honestly don’t/ I think that the momentum is gone. I believe that they have not delivered based on the first round. And so I think come the SEC filings…I’m kind of a betting man, I would probably bet that they won’t do as good. For their sake, you know, hey, I’m a business owner myself. If they’re trying to do a business and this is how they’re gonna raise money, I wish them all the best of luck. But I just don’t think people are going to start shelling out the money. Because what have we really received at the end of the day? A lot of promises. A lot of broken promises. But really not substance, not content, not context. We’re missing a lot.

And I think people are starting to catch on. And if you don’t believe me, check social media. Because it’s not the puppies and rainbows that it used to be. October, November, December of 2017 when they would put out something. It’s changed a little bit and people are getting tired of the teases and, “Hey, wait, I’ve got something big coming. Invest here and we can do some tests.” Well, it’s like well, what happened to the million and a half that you first did? And as you pointed out, marketing and t-shirts and coffee mugs and you know, I mean that’s that’s hurtful to the bottom line. So hey, if they’re out to raise the money and they’re trying to make this a business, I wish them the best of luck.

JC: Well, you know, Tom, his talent and everything else…he got this thing off the ground. TTSA has launched. He’s a creative guy and if that’s what he, you know, he needs to get into the studio and play guitar and write songs and Angels & Airwaves and do all of that create…That’s where his heart lies and he needs to go and do that. But who replaces him and what what if, in your estimation…If it’s Jim Semivan, a 25 year CIA veteran, does that make “To The Stars Academy,” a CIA front company…at that point where you don’t even have a an actual civilian anywhere on the staff anymore. It’s all counterintelligence, DOD and CIA.

JG: I wouldn’t be ready to quite say it that strongly, But I would say that that’s a lot of CIA people. And once you’re trained at that level, you can’t really teach an old dog new tricks. And so it’s probably gonna operate like one. So again, I’m not ready to say that, you know, this is tied to the government and there’s some kind of sinister CIA objective, but it probably would be run like one. I mean, I wouldn’t argue that point.

JC: Well, perception…theatrics, is half of the sale. And if that perception is CIA, national counterintelligence, you know, agents, Department of Defense, DIA, and that is your staff. What other conclusions can one come to? And I’m only basing it on the facts. I’m not going down a conspiracy, you know, rabbit hole here? I’m just looking at everybody’s CV.

JG: And you can argue it. On the contrary, though, where I would place a
quick guess here. In the next year, maybe 18 months, instead of some of those figures moving up to CEO, in my opinion, I think you’re going to see one of them drop off. I think I think it’s gonna start to fall apart.

JC: Could be.


JC: When I look at the TTSA, how do I say, talent? I’m going to go with talent here. We’ve got a company that is, allegedly, developing alien technology to move into the private sector for profit. That sounds great. Anti-gravity airliners. I’m down for that. Flying cars, right? Teleportation. I need a warp drive on my electric bike. Alright, so yeah, I’m down for that. Why do we need out of, you know, the top 10 here on their…Why do you need three national security advisors?

JG: Yeah, the titles for everybody are fairly confusing. I mean, I think that it warrants a little bit of an explanation from “To The Stars Academy.” Now I’m not a stockholder. So maybe in their, in their meetings that they have. I believe that they have like shareholder meetings and stuff. Maybe they’ve explained it but it just doesn’t make sense. I mean, the Director of Global Security or whatever it is for Luis Elizondo, like what is he securing on a global scale? Like, what…I just there’s, there’s a lot of things that I just don’t get there that makes you kind of scratch your head and go…what are these guys doing? Are they making up titles as they go? Or, or what? And I really just don’t know.

JC: I mean, why have Dr. Norm Khan? His job title is national security. And he’s a 30 year CIA veteran, you know, he’s got the CIA’s distinguished career intelligence medal. Full on spook, right? That’s it. That’s it. He’s a full on spy vs. spy…spook. What is he doing as an employee at “To The Stars Academy?”

JG: Yeah. I mean, he’s listed as a member of the advisory panel. So my sarcastic answer would be he’s advising. But advising what? Like what?
Okay. There’s a lot of argument that they are the ones that orchestrated the congressional hearings, and I am saying that with air quotes, even though you can’t see me. Because I’m still trying to figure out if there was really any hearing, or if some of these pilots had met just just in an office and potentially just met with a congressman. Did TTSA a play a role in that. They’re telling you that they are and quite possibly, maybe they did. But when people are arguing about the successes of TTSA, they’re only basing it off of what TTSA is telling you. And I don’t know what role some of these advisors are playing, for example, like Dr. Khan that you that you just asked me about. Or Chris Mellon, who’s probably the one that’s most influential out of everybody, that if they really did achieve all of this, it was him. But a lot of these names that are listed on the website with these fancy titles. I mean, I haven’t heard of some of these guys other than them just being advisors, you know. And they’re not playing a role in anything. So, again, I mean, I don’t pretend to know about the inner workings of their corporation, but it does make you scratch your head on why would you have that? The brain function and consciousness consultant?

JC: Yes! (laughs) What is up with that what?

JG: Yeah, exactly. Like, what what are they doing here? The only thing, if I were to make an educated guess, that these players, these advisors were all set up and put in line that I think they probably thought, TTSA thought, that come that streamed live stream, press conference, that they were gonna achieve that $50 million right away. And that would be divvied up to their three divisions where they were really going to take the next step to make those three divisions work. And as a business model, again, taking my myself away from any reservation or thoughts that I have, I don’t think that that was really a bad idea. Because that $50 million invested into, let’s say, highly advanced aerospace technology and stuff like that. If they have the right people aboard. If they play their cards right. They really could have been a contender, maybe in the next five or 10 years with the Richard Bransons and the Elon Musks. That’s a stretch and it’s a gamble. But I think that that was the intent.

When you fall flat then on the investment, then the question is, well, you just brought all these advisors on board, you know, and so what do you do? Do you just say, “Well, sorry. I’m gonna delete you from the website now.” Or just kind of keep them around in hopes that round number two will get you the money that you need. And so maybe that’s why we’re still seeing these names. Because brain function and consciousness consulting, it will play a role (laughs as he’s saying it) in something that, you know, maybe we haven’t thought of yet.

Here’s one thing I want to throw out about the money before you switch gears. But the one thing I want to throw out about the money that not many people talk about, that I think is incredibly important, is that the core of what TTSA is trying to achieve, which on some of it, I actually don’t disagree with, I support it. If they really were doing something that they wanted to benefit the public. If we take two of the players that you have already named in this show, Chris Mellon and Tom DeLonge. Mellon comes from a very successful family. I was curious, I looked it up. That family is worth, according to Forbes, $11.5 billion dollars with a B.

JC: That’s right.

JG: Now I’ve tried to look for a accurate net worth of Tom DeLonge. I get anywhere from $40 to $80 million, somewhere around there. Let’s just say it’s 40. That’s a lot of money. Single handedly, well, double handedly, between those two gentlemen. They could make this organization, based off of money from, you know, if, if Chris doesn’t have it, he can call an uncle or cousin or whomever and say, “Hey, look, here’s a viable investment opportunity. Let’s do this. Let’s make it work.” And they could have made it work in like a day. You know, I mean, the theatrics to do this public benefit corporation and solicit money from the public. That’s all well and good if it worked. It didn’t work. So now fast forward, instead of switching the way that they’re going to finance this, they kind of double down on these broken promises, and say, “Hey, look, here’s a piece of metal.” And in their press release, this to me boggled my mind. A scientific announcement that they acquired a meta-material. And they put this press release out there. And the press release uses a photo of a Earth-based mineral known as malachite.

Now, I tweeted that out, and there’s a stock footage house that actually has the exact photo that they used for their press release about the scientific breakthrough acquisition. And for me, you know, that is telling. Why would you not use a picture of what you have? And then, I think, and I’m not going to take credit, I wasn’t the first one that figured it out. But I tweeted it out and said, “Look at this, this is ridiculous.” It gained a little bit of traction. So they were publishing the photos of the metamaterial in hopes to, I guess, squash the public reaction of why are you guys showing a rock, you know, like…Show what you actually have. And that is all playing a role, I think in this secrecy. covert agenda that is paving the way to make you scratch your head and go, “Is this a CIA op? Why would they do that? They could fund all of this with their board members. Easy, yet they don’t.” They could show us these scientific breakthroughs that they’ve acquired, right? They had this elaborate press release. But all they did was they got the metal, like, there was no testing, there was no nothing. So they made it seem like something it was not for round two of funding. I just don’t get that. Those are those are the things that need to change or they’re not going to be able to do anything.

JC: Again, for clarity, this photograph on their website for the metamaterials press release. You’re saying that this photograph that I’m looking at here is a stock photo?

JG: Yeah. So if you go to, you know DPO, To The Stars Academy.com slash blog. So that’s key and I’ll tell you why in a second. So go to slash blog, the top one July 25, 2019. That is malachite. And my Twitter account has it. I posted it a day or two ago. Shameless plug, It’s black vault com. blackvaultcom. And you’ll see it and I link over to the Shutterstock stock photo of malachite. Now I was born and raised in a rock and gem club. And I laugh only because I had a lot of fun in it. It was very cool. You learn a lot about rocks and gems and minerals and stuff like that. So malachite is something that I’ve seen since I was a wee little lad when my mom and dad would take me to these meetings. So it doesn’t take a, you know, a scientist to figure out like, “Hey, wait a minute. Not only is that not a metamaterial but why are you editing a stock photo of malachite and putting that out there? So I linked to the direct one. You can match it up. It is 100% a match and that’s what they are putting out there. So that’s worrisome.

And, as you know, I mean you’ve interviewed me a couple of times, I never harped on TTSA in the beginning about number one, using a picture of a mylar balloon that was debunked years ago as a representation of the Tic Tac, right? In their original thing. I never brought that up. Mistakes happen.

JC: I did. (laughs)

JG: I mean look. Rightfully so. But I mean, my gripes were elsewhere

JC: Yes. Yes.

JG: But now it’s more important to me, because now…then you had Luis Elizondo, standing in front of a world audience in Italy, and giving a presentation. And points to a CGI, a still frame from an animation. And I knew it right away because I had licensed it years ago for a documentary I did for for History Channel. But I’m not the only one. This thing has been used and reused 100 times over. And he points to it and he says, “This is an exact photo of a 1950, of the 1952 Washington sightings over the Capitol building.” No, it was CGI.

JC: And not only that…see when he did that, this is what bothered me most about that, John, is that anybody in the UFO community knows that there were no photographs from 1952. Everybody knows that that was a picture of reflected parking lot lights and it was used for a film post or a movie post. You know, it was the cover of “Fate Magazine” or whatever it is. But we all know this. And when he said that, I thought to myself, “Here’s a guy that doesn’t know the facts and he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. And that combined with the mylar balloon, and now this metamaterials photograph, which I didn’t know about, it’s just how much more stuff can we pile up on this load of crap?

JG: Yeah, and that, to me is where…then all of a sudden, all of this is starting to make a little bit more sense. It becomes more important. Because again, I wanna drive the point home that even though I had a lot of red flags, I gave them some leeway. I tried to cut some slack and give benefits of the doubt that that was a mistake. That was a mistake. Well, how many mistakes do you have to make before you have to ask the question? Okay, what are you guys doing? You know, there’s a phrase that a lot…I call them the TTSA superfans, that is thrown around a lot. Well, the UFO community isn’t their target. So who cares what John Greenwald or Jimmy Church or whomever says…They’re above and beyond that, right?. I don’t know if that’s an official stance or not, but a lot of people that fire shots at me will will say that. Well, there has to be a point where you care about what you’re telling your people, no matter what community you’re targeting.

And when you have these many blunders, it makes you ask that question: “What is your intent? Are you trying to mislead? Why don’t you show a real photo of your metamaterial?” Why would you just put this major press release out to help fund, you know, to help entice investments into your corporation. Not only use the wrong photograph, but on top of that, not have anything of substance. Right? I mean, you’d at least be able to take this piece of metal, go to a lab, you’ve raised a million and a half dollars. You’ve got a an advisor, who comes from a family that’s worth $11.5 billion. Your CEO has either $40 to $80 million. Go out there to a major university, take your piece, expedite a test if you’re that confident in it, and that’s your press release. That’s something worthy. But instead this shroud of secrecy from a public benefit corporation, who prided themselves on ending the secrecy. What’s up with that? You know? The fact that they’ve acquired all these UFO pieces, and yet they won’t talk to you about any of them. They’ve just acquired them or they’re working on them. Well, that’s great. That’s, that’s awesome. But again, with the amount of money floating around from the advisors, and then the board members and people that are owners, there’s enough that could be financed on a personal level if you really believe in what you’ve got.

JC: And succeed! And succeed!

JG: And succeed, yeah. And hell, if they brought that out, and they had irrefutable scientific, peer reviewed, whatever that showed that there was some kind of otherworldly connection to this, I’ll slap down some investment money. I mean, if they really went there, and their science was solid, I don’t think that anybody that has any interest in this would not want to invest. But instead, you don’t have any of that. You just have more secrecy, more corporate shielding, and more people that hide behind security clearances, and don’t want to answer tough questions. And that has been problematic almost from the get go, with the organization. And now with the Pentagon saying what they did…not only against Mr. Elizondo, right? Let’s put that aside. I’m not sure if you’re aware of this or not. But about a month ago, I was really researching hard the videos themselves, right? So I took all the players away from my research angle, all of TTSA. I just focused on the videos. And not only found out irrefutably I mean, like, no one’s been able to come up with any kind of counter to this. Those three videos that TTSA released, they’re not cleared for public release at all. They were not officially declassified, like it’s being told to us. I have official statements from the Pentagon stating such, right? Now people say the Pentagon lies. Fine. Then let’s prove ’em wrong. But there’s no evidence to support that the Pentagon is wrong.

That being said, they also in a statement later on to me, which is all verifiable, named “To The Stars Academy” by name, and the New York Times, that they were not allowed or cleared to show those videos. So the story that we’ve been told about these videos is flawed from the get go. And then when you add in what’s called a DD Form 1910. What that is, is instead of going through a Freedom of Information Act request, right? That’s something you and I can do. Or what’s called a MDR or a Mandatory Declassification Review. That’s something you and I can do. Somebody on the inside, that has a either classified or unclassified something and they wanna potentially show it in a slide presentation, or whatever, they fill out a DD Form 1910. In fact, Mr Elizondo gave a great rundown of how this happened on Coast to Coast AM.

And so the DD 1910 was submitted. Up until George Knapp released the actual document, we assumed it was Mr. Elizondo because he had intimate knowledge about how this was done. Yet the name of the requestor was blacked out. But what is more telling than all else, right, aside from the fact that the form does not allow or pave the way for public release, was that the three videos were defined as UAVS or unidentified, or excuse me, unmanned aerial vehicles, balloons, or UASs – Unmanned Aerial Systems. The first and the third of those three are pretty much drones, right? That’s aka drones. That’s what they mean. So whomever filled out that form, which again, I thought was Mr. Elizondo. But if they want to black out the name, that’s fine. Whomever filled it out, said that those three videos that are being told to us as some UAP or UFO phenomena. And they very well may be. Internally, they’re being labeled as balloons and drones. Why is that? Nobody’s asking that question.

So two things are going on here: The public is being misled, or the agency was misled. That in itself is an extreme violation, I won’t go into any legal repercussions. That’s not my forte, and I’m not gonna start throwing around legal whatever. But that is not protocol. So someone was being lied to. And so why I bring up the protocol angle is that once that DD form 1910 goes in, reviewers that are away from the requester,  have to look at – it’s called DOPSR – they have to look at the material that’s requested for release. And based on the information on the form, and in addition to the description, there is what’s called use and usage. And so the requester says, well, I want to use it for this or I want to use it for that. And whomever filled out the form for those drones and balloons, according to them, they were only going to use it for United States government use only. And for a database, essentially leading towards, you know, aviation safety and stuff like that. But it was not for public release. And they needed to adhere to what they put on the form because it was approved, but it was not approved for public release. Because they specifically said, we are not using it for public release.

Now what happens? It’s cleared…it, within six weeks, because the date is on the form, so do the math. Within six weeks of the DOPSR process being completed – and those videos, the drones and balloons that were only supposed to be used for U.S. government use only and not for public release – winds up on the New York Times and then involved in a public benefit corporation where they slapped a corporate logo on ’em and tried to get investments based on those videos. (makes a laughing noise) I think that’s the definition of shady.

JC: Well it feels strange and the reason why…I mean if it feels strange it probably is. But where it goes further is that the one thing that they based everything on was the repeated statement that the Pentagon has released these never seen before videos of UFOs to the public. And it was repeated over and over and over and over again. And what they didn’t plan on was getting caught. And the UFO community, John, you know as well as anybody, if you’re gonna…if you’re gonna walk a line, a thin line and try to balance yourself and not get caught, this UFO community is too quick. It normally takes a few minutes to get something torn apart. And that’s what happens here.

The situation that has gone down with TTSA…it’s not been once. It’s not been twice. It wasn’t the mylar balloons or this metamaterials or the videos or these these other mistakes. But then there’s the the situation with that Elizondo. There’s aerospace or aeronautics. And that question about AATIP and how…one thing after another, where you’ve got the New York Times doing their article. And when they did that article, everybody accepted that as gospel. Well, it was in the New York Times. It went through legal. They vet everything, so all of this must be true. And so it was taken as biblical fact and then it goes across all of the rest of mainstream media, The story has never changed because it was established back then. Now they’ve gotten caught, you know, one time after another. It just seems to me like there must be something legal here. Why? Why isn’t? You know, why aren’t there agencies looking at this and questioning what is going on? If this was Coca Cola, John, they would be called out. There would be Department of Justice ethics people all over this.

JG: Yeah.

JC: You can’t do this. But why does To The Stars get away with this one time after another?

JG: Let me ask you a quick question not to step on you there.

JC: No, you’re not.

JG: And I don’t have any insider knowledge. Let me preface it by saying this is a genuine question. Who says they’re not?

JC: Right! Yes! I know! I know! Isn’t that, isn’t that bizarre?

JG: Yeah. And I think that a lot of people say well, they’re showing it and nothing has happened yet. Well, Mr. Elizondo in his interviews has said multiple times the government’s very slow with what they do. So it is quite possible that there is an investigation. A lot of times these things, I mean I do a lot of Freedom of Information Act requests for inspector general records. And I can tell you, inspector general investigations, they sometimes last years. You know? And so it, it’s not like they they find out that these videos aired on Monday on the History Channel. They weren’t supposed to. So on Tuesday, they’re making phone calls and getting stuff done. I mean, granted, if it was a highly secretive, highly classified, document or video…sure, yeah, maybe. But something like this where let’s just say that DD form 1910 was accurate. And they’re showing balloons? Yeah, technically they weren’t cleared for public release. But the U.S. government has to weigh something. And again, I don’t have any insider knowledge here. This is a guess. But the government has to weigh one of the most important aspects to this, which is…do you want to chance turning Mr Elizondo into a martyr?

That let’s say he really did – and the hypothetical here. – if he really did do something wrong, and there was something shady and they snuck these videos out, they got these videos out under false pretense, and they they put them out there. You have an army of people that support him for that. They don’t care that he said they’re UAVs or balloons or drones or whatever. They think they’re UAPs or UFOs. They very well may be. But that’s their mindset and Elizondo is a hero. If that investigation then concludes, look, we’ve gotta, we’ve gotta take action here, what’s gonna happen? Do you think that army of people just gonna go, “Oh, man, that guy really did do something wrong. Oh, shucks, I really believed him.” No, they’re going to be loud and noisy. I mean look at what happened to Julian Assange with the public outcry when he was taken out.

JC: That’s exactly what’s gonna happen! That’s exactly what’s gonna happen! And it’s gonna…you know what is ultimately going to be the message?

JG: Yeah, they have to weigh that. Because turning him into a martyr can potentially do more damage than not. So again, I’m playing hypotheticals here. I’m not placing a legal accusation. But it’s an important factor that I think anyone with a logical mind has to consider that either, number one, they are investigating and we have not seen the result yet. Or number two, they have investigated and they realized, we can’t do anything because if we do, we’re going to have an army of UFO people, that instead of Storm Area 51, it’s gonna be storm the Pentagon, And they’re gonna have a bigger issue, right? And they have to they have to consider that.

JC: I can already hear it. They took Elizo…they’re taking Elizondo down, man because he was he was speaking the truth. You know, he was doing this for us..

JG: It’s already out there.

JC: I know. (laughs)

JG: Yeah, no, Yeah, no, I mean you already heard it now. It’s been said for since June 1 since that dropped. Since the Pentagon took that shot and said “No, he didn’t.” And to go back to the Bender thing. You know, he deleted that tweet promising an additional, updated statement from the Pentagon and a retraction. And when you add that on top of the statements that the Pentagon has given about the videos and it starts to paint a picture that we haven’t been told the truth, that quite possibly the media was wrong. And I’m going to be fair, I can’t believe I’m saying this…to the media. Because a lot of this is very tough to understand, right? I mean, we just don’t all have the knowledge about DD form 1910s. And the DOPSR process and positions within the government and this that and the other thing, I think they could have vetted a little bit better, it sounds like. But I wanna be somewhat fair. But as time goes on, and all of this stuff comes to light, these journalists that did these article – not only in December of 2017, not only New York Times and Politico but literally hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of organizations – they praise Pentagon statements, And yet now we have Pentagon statements that are putting more information out there and it’s that selective reporting.

And I mean, I don’t fully blame one side or the other. I think the media really needs to however, be on the top of the list as being…part of the problem here. In that they are not asking the right questions or, if they make a mistake, they’re not doing the right thing and issuing a correction. And Bryan Bender not only deleting the tweet, I had wrote the article, I reached out to him for comment. And he, he refused. He responded, but he refused to comment on why he deleted the tweet. He had not blocked me at that point. And, and he refused to comment. So I put that in my article. But why would you just ignore all of this? When the statement comes out that there are new UFO guidelines, who was the first to break that story? Bryan Bender. So it’s like when it goes against what you believe or what you’ve been the line you’ve been touting, it’s squashed. You’re a conspiracy theorist and I’m gonna block you if you forward that statement out. And yet when it goes to something that’s gonna get hits and clicks, like a UFO flashy headline. It’s run on the front page of Politico by Bryan Bender.

So that’s the stuff that doesn’t make sense to me. And I’m not one to tease and I’m not gonna tease. But I do wanna tell you really quickly, that recently I received, under the Freedom of Information Act, through a request I did, from the Department of Navy, all of the emails from the press office within the Department of Navy, and how they communicated -they meaning the Navy – with the media about these quote unquote, “UFO guidelines.” Within that – although his name was redacted, but it says within the content of the email, here is my article from December 2017 and links to Bryan Bender’s Politico article – he was aware of the UFO guidelines in February…that he was communicating with them.

And I was able to get all of these documents under the Freedom of Information Act. And I’m here to tell you it is really interesting to see the headlines – not only by Bender, because I don’t want to just pick on him – but by the media about those UFO guidelines. And you kind of juxtapose that with what the media actually told them. And it’s really interesting to see how kind of slanted the media is to make a flashy UFO headline, which actually has nothing to do with what the Navy was was stating officially. Now I am an advocate, for the record, I am an advocate for further UFO study. I believe the government and military should be in on this. And I believe there has been an active cover up for many decades. But in the same respect, I have to be logical and I have to be truthful, when I look into this. And when I see that the media is being told x, and then they make this flashy headline about why, it doesn’t make sense to me and I think that they need to be called out. I really do. And if they want to block me like Bryan Bender blocked me for forwarding out a Pentagon statement, go ahead. But sadly, when people start to wake up and look at the actual reality here, all of the red flags that you and I have been talking about, start to make sense

JC: What do we do with? Okay, you know, like going down the rabbit hole. But what do we do with the suggestion that I had earlier? If Semivan takes over as CEO, DeLonge goes off to Angels & Airwaves and he goes on tour and he’s doing his thing and now he’s removed from TTSA. And Semivan takes over and they come out with Season 2 of “Unidentified.” Is that a CIA production at that…is there any other way to perceive that other than Project Mockingbird?

JG: I mean, it’s a…

JC: It’s not that much of a stretch. No, it’s not that much of a stretch, though.

JG: It’s not that much of a stretch, but having worked for A&E Networks and how they operate, I don’t think TTSA, as an organization or corporation, had a lot of say in the television series. I think maybe partially, and I think that potentially they obviously gave a lot of the content. But A&E Networks, I want to give credit to them. I mean, they produce their own stuff. In regards to a Season 2, they have to deal with the big, pink elephant in the room, even though TTSA doesn’t want to. And that pink elephant is the fact that the star of their show has a Pentagon statement against his name, stating that his claims in that show are not true. Right? So A&E Networks…let’s get away from the whole UFO debate. A&E Networks is no stranger to controversy. Nor is any network. I’m not picking on them. But they’re no stranger to controversy about television hosts. Oftentimes, criminal records come up, somebody tweets out something bad. I mean, like all sorts of things have happened over the years.

I can tell you what the last shows that I’ve done for them in the non-fiction arena. there’s no way I can put a doctor so and so on camera, if there is no evidence to support that he is a doctor, right? The whole point of nonfiction is to stay truthful, and you can’t start fictionalizing people. The same is true with these types of, you know, reality type shows even though they don’t want that spin on it. It’s a reality show. It’s UFO Hunters 2.0 and I was a producer on that. It’s the same formula. And you know, I mean, I’m proud of the episodes that I did of UFO Hunters. And when you compare it…yeah, I mean, it’s a lot newer and there’s cooler graphics and the editing is flashier. But I mean, go look at some old episodes of UFO Hunters. You’ve got the notebook in the field, just like Mr. Elizondo is taking notes. You have Pat Uskert with the backpack, just like Mr. Elizondo in “Unidentified.” You’ve got so many things that from a television entertainment aspect, a production aspect, this has been done before. So with all of that being said, there’s not a whole lot new here except the cast of characters. And and in Season 2, if there is one, they need to address that. They need to figure out a way to counter the Pentagon statement and either get a retraction or at least publish something that does not put the doubt out there. Until they do that. I’m going to take a guess and say there will be no Season 2.

JC: I’m looking here. The reason why I bring it up is that there are those that are always going to say, well, “You can say what you want about TTSA and the CIA, but they got it done. They got the UFO question out there in the public and I’m okay with that. I don’t care how it was done.” My point to anybody that says that, is missing what I am trying to say. And we may disagree once again on this, John. But it’s not that. It is, what is the message and why? That’s the key here. What is it that they are putting the spin on and why? It’s…do not get blinded by this and go, “Hey, it’s okay. It’s okay. The UFO question is being…” It’s why. What is the message that they are projecting on the rest of the world? And that is that is what is key here, isn’t it?

JG: It absolutely is. And in fact, I don’t think we were going to disagree much on this point. But I kind of will add that I, in the short term, and I actually did a Facebook post on social media and kind of a tweet thread on this very thing today, earlier this morning. And that was I look at the long term. I mean, I’ve been around this field for 23 years. I know you’ve been around a long time as well. And we’ve seen a lot of charlatans come and go. We’ve seen a lot of claims come and go. Alien mummies come to mind, right? I don’t know what your thoughts are on it. But sorry. But in my mind, that’s what comes up.

JC: They’re real.

JG: We see a lot of these outlandish claims. In the short term, it gets a lot of media attention. Is that good? In my opinion, no. But to a lot of the newcomers that have come around, right – the millennial target, that TTSA says they’re targeting the millennials – they have only come around for the last year and a half or so. They see Tom DeLonge: “Hey, I grew up with listening to his music. I’m a fan of his music.” They see that. They don’t have the experience of seeing the charlatans come and go, which paves the way and makes us have the requirement of asking questions. We need to ask the questions. They can have easy answers. I’ve always said that. But we need to ask. And so you’ve got this growing number of people. I don’t know if it’s growing anymore. But you have this number of people that haven’t had that experience, yet. And so when I look at the long term…the media attention right now doesn’t mean anything because the media turns on stories eventually. That if these wild, outlandish claims by TTSA that got the headlines, if they stay stagnant, right, and they lose credibility, the media is not gonna keep profiling them.

So we’ve already seen the steam kind of come out of the momentum. We’ve seen that. There’s just not a whole lot of headlines. The headlines that are coming out now that deal with TTSA, one I posted today from IFL Science, which is a you know, I mean, it’s a fairly popular website. You want them on your side to put out scientific-related information about UFOs. And they essentially made it kind of a laughing stock that they profile TTSA’s press release and that there was essentially nothing to it. And I recommend everybody to go read that because they’re not the only ones that are publishing these now, somewhat scathing pieces. Kind of poking fun at…okay, it’s two years have gone by, you know, kind of put up or shut up, kind of thing. And we’re seeing that more and more. So that’s what I mean by the big picture that can hurt the credibility of a field that deserves attention. So this field deserves it and they’re not doing it any favors by what they have done in the last year and a half, for the most part.

JC: Where is that article that you’re talking about on the vault?

JG: So well, you’d have to go to my Twitter page, because I don’t, it’s…I link out to IFL Science, if you’re familiar with that. www.iflscience.com. I can’t say the full term, I’ll get you FCC violation. But yeah, IFLscience.com. And I’ve linked it on my Twitter page that you can go out there and read my thread that’s attached to it. But if you if you go there and read it, I mean…and I didn’t talk to the to the journalist, by the way. And I’m not bringing it up for this reason. My tweet ended up in this article, showing the malachite and showing kind of how silly their visuals are going along with these quote unquote, “scientific announcements.” And so I didn’t plan that. I didn’t know it. I was just kind of surprised when I saw it this morning. But even if I wasn’t in it, I’d point you to it because it shows that shift in the bigger picture.

And if something doesn’t drastically change. If we don’t start to clean up some of this mess a little bit, people that are really out there with genuine intentions, with UFO information and scientific anomalies, and maybe they have a piece of something that deserves scrutiny…they’re going to be laughed at in the future. Just simply because of the amount of attention that this got in the last year and a half. But to have it dwindled down to being a joke to a growing number of outlets? That’s problematic. When you end your television series with a UFO case in Italy, that has largely been debunked, you’re losing credibility. Not only as an organization, but whether they like it or not, they are attached to what they don’t want to be attached to. And that is the UFO community. They’re just attached to it. So they shouldn’t be surprised when people are passionate. And they come after their press releases and their silly visuals. And they come after that and say you guys need to stop. And I think that there is a growing number of people that are starting to realize, they need to stop. If they have something, it’s time to work together to make this something because I’ve put the offer out there. If they have a scientific breakthrough, I will help them disseminate the press release. Right. I’m not New York Times, but I can reach quite a few people on social networking.

JC: Yes you can. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

JG: So I’ll help, right?

JC: I would do the same thing. I’d be so…I would be…look, I’m the first person to to report good news and, you know, on December 17th, 2017, that Saturday, I broadcasted live that night. Days of disclosure. That was a big deal to me. I have no problems with that. I wanna get back to a couple of points really quick before…which is this. And again, not to harp on Elizondo, but when I look at their website now, where it says he was the program element manager for AATIP. No longer the director of AATIP, which is been everywhere. When did they make this change? And what is a program element manager?

JG: Well, I wanna be fair, I don’t know offhand if they changed the verbiage on their website. Do you know offhand if they did?

JC: I’m looking at it right here. It says Program Element Manager for AATIP.

JG: But they…it formerly said their director? Cause I don’t know that.

JC: Okay. I can’t speak as a fact for their website. But we know that in every press release…every, every, every, article – Fox Television – he was always director of AATIP.

JG: Well, I know that that’s what he’s definitely said. I mean, and again I’m not arguing the point. I just don’t wanna give the false impression that they’ve changed the verbiage. I’m not sure. I’m in Wayback Machine trying to quickly fact check this. So that being said, though, I don’t think that they’ve changed who or what he is. To be honest with you, I expected A&E Networks to put a disclaimer at the beginning of “Unidentified.” Because “Unidentified” had just started that Friday, one day prior to The Intercept article coming out. And I thought that I would see a slate that would say something, you know, just kind of removing A&E Networks from the claims. And that never happened. As far as I know, they are still maintaining that he was the quote unquote “director” and the one that was responsible. I did get a statement from Dr. Hal Puthoff when I wrote the article about the 2009 Harry Reid letter because that was a additional statement. I didn’t get that original one, by the way, for the record…for anybody who’s listening. That one that was published by “The Intercept,” that caught me by surprise, just like everyone else. So I did not receive that. I was just only able to independently verify it after, with the Pentagon, to make sure that it was all legitimate.

But that being said, when I had done the 2009 Harry Reid letter and they said that that did not change their stance. The only one that would respond to me was Dr. Hal Puthoff. And he had said that he had essentially worked with Mr. Elizondo under his leadership of the program, when he was contracted by BAASS through Bigelow Aerospace. What I tried to get him to address, because this is a very important point that I think is very under looked at this point. As far as I know, unless he wants to go on the record, 2008, 2009 was when AAWSAP was at Defense Intelligence Agency. And that was where BAASS had contracted to work. That was called AAWSAP. AAWSAP then led to AATIP and that was transferred, according to Mr. Elizondo’s story in 2010.

Dr. Puthoff would have never worked under Elizondo’s leadership. Unless he wants to go on the record and say BAASS was then involved with another agency, under another program. And this is another mucky part of the water, which I again I think is a very important point. Dr. Puthoff describes AATIP as a nickname for AAWSAP. So he says that they are the same program. Ironically, Major Audricia Harris, in a statement from the Pentagon back in early 2018, pretty much said the same thing. So they align with how they describe AATIP. However, Mr Elizondo stressed in one of his lectures, that AATIP was a completely different program than AAWSAP. And he says that he never brought up AAWSAP because he was under a little bit of fire from people for not bringing that up and giving proper background. I defended him, and I think it was actually on your show when I did it. But that being said, I thought, you know, hey, if he wasn’t part of it, and this is a different program, he doesn’t have to give the whole background to the entire United States government. So cut him some slack. And again, I think it was your show that I did that.

However, when he says that it’s a completely different program. I had written about that discrepancy. Because to me, as someone who researches this stuff, kind of for a living, that’s an important point. When one person is saying, “Ah, it’s just a nickname.” And the other is saying, “It’s a totally different program.” Because then you have different offices. You have different funding lines. You have different budget line items. You have a slew of things that you now have to consider. And so I had pointed that out. And then when when the Pentagon said that Mr. Elizondo had, you know, no responsibilities on the program, all of a sudden those discrepancies started to make sense. The discrepancies were there quite possibly, because he was making it up as he went. There’s no way around that.

JC: Why doesn’t – this may be the dumbest question I can ask. Why doesn’t To The Stars take some of that stock investment money and get a frigging fact checker? Right? I mean. (laughs) Wouldn’t that just fix a lot of their problems? Because, you know, I said this two years ago, and I meant it a year and a half ago. I said, here you’ve got all of this brainpower. You’ve got physicists and and national security and banking. You’ve got all of this brainpower here. How can you stumble and make these kinds of mistakes? It doesn’t make any sense. And that was one of the questions that I laid out to DeLonge and to the team over there. I was just like, just tell me who the fall guy is here. Who’s making the mistakes? Because somebody here is running amok and all of this brainpower…you guys are supposed to be investigating UFOs, right? At the Pentagon. Do you guys really know what you’re doing? You know, that’s the bottom line. A fact checker here. Some quality control script supervisor, right? And you know what I’m talking about. To keep everything in line. You pay people to do that, don’t you?

JG: Yeah, you would. And I think that that would help with the press release blunders, the PowerPoint presentation blunders…the, you know, that that kind of stuff. But when a undisputed contributor, meaning Dr. Hal Puthoff, through BAASS, is taking part in the program? And ironically, how he describes it, aligns with how the Pentagon has described it. And then you’ve got Mr. Elizondo, who gives the the same…an answer to the same question. Essentially, what is AATIP and it is wildly different than Dr. Puthoff, which aligned with the Pentagon. You have to ask yourself why, why can’t they get their story straight. You don’t need a script supervisor, fact checker for that. Those two guys work at the exact same corporation and are on the same board. And they can’t get their story straight. That’s not semantics. You know, that’s not wordplay and this and that. Those are two different descriptions for these programs. And that’s not the only discrepancy, you know? I mean, there’s a long list.

I wrote a big timeline. And I literally, on a timeline, only used their quotes. Used Dr. Puthoff. Luis Elizondo, I added a few points from the Pentagon. But some people just wanna, you know, dismiss the government, which is fine, You can actually do this on the timeline. And you still have to scratch your head because these guys cannot agree on what the story is. And then I put in a lot of the media. Only the media that had direct access to TTSA. Not people doing what I call copy and paste journalism. Not bloggers. Not anything. Just the outlets that had direct contact with TTSA/Luis Elizondo, or Tom DeLonge or Doctor Puthoff. And when you look at the timeline, it is ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. If you wanna harp on the media, fine. You wanna harp on TTSA, fine. You wanna harp on whomever, pick one. But they need to be harped on because when you look at it in that form, and and using sourceable quotes. I sourced 100% of it. So you can click on the source link and go to interviews, videos, you know, whomever. You verify anything I put on this timeline, but you see how much of a mess it is.

People that support this group, they need to take 20 minutes and read that and see if they’re still okay with it. Because they’re being told multiple stories. Now I love, eat and breathe all of this stuff. But not everybody does. They’re not paying attention to every little facet, all of the minutiae. The minute matters. Those details matter. Because in the end, you might ultimately find out that somebody is not who they say they are. Did we find that out with this? I’m not real sure. We have a Pentagon statement now that is the pink elephant that nobody wants to touch. I don’t know how long they can keep going with that. But I think that it needs to be done. Because again, those red flags that you and I have chatted before…long before the Pentagon, you know, issued that statement.

JC: Way before, way before ,way before.

JG: Way before. All of a sudden they make sense. Not having dates right. Not knowing certain aspects to projects. Contradicting other board members. All of a sudden, it lines up and I went, “Ohhhhhh. Okay, now that actually makes sense. I don’t want it to be true. Again, I think it’s gonna do more damage in the long run. And I think you’re coming up on a break. But really quick, I reached out to Mr. Elizondo, privately, through his personal email address. He and I, we can get into this after the break if you want. He and I had corresponded before. He would never answer my questions. And I’ll deal with that, because there was a rumor on Twitter, which was a fabricated lie. But that being said, I said to him, let me help you fix this. I said, I tried with the 2009 Reid letter from George Knapp. And I said, “This is what the Pentagon gave me. I am going to publish it because if I don’t, I’m going to do the same thing that I harp on everybody else for doing. And that’s selective reporting.” So I said let me help you fix this. Give me anything that was ignored. And Dr. Puthoff was the only one that went on the record. And he made everything a heck of a lot more confusing.

JC: I wanted to get back to a point about the metamaterials now. Now, I had a very long conversation top, top, top, top, top, top, researcher. Top, top of the heap. And he said to me, he said, “Jimmy, I was in possession of those metamaterials. I had them for a couple of years. I had them completely tested at multiple laboratories. They are 100% terrestrial. And I told TTSA this. I gave TTSA all of my laboratory results. They don’t wanna listen. And they just wanna go on with this story…that it is…uh, you know, that it’s ET. It is not.” And, and that’s it. I took that as gospel. I just backed up and went okay and you know, TTSA is gonna run with this and sensationalize it and and make it part of their “Unidentified” show and and and I get that. It’s like a Bigfoot show. You know the ending of Bigfoot, right? You know the ending of the show, and with these metamaterials, it’s going to be the same thing. It’s gonna be ongoing. The tests are inconclusive, but, but there’s this and this. And and that’s, that’s the way it’s gonna run. It’s a TV show. And I get that. But I’m telling you what I was told.

JG: And it’s not surprising. And I, from what I understand, the piece that’s being touted right now has been around for quite some time. Like, like, since the 1990s. Quite some time. And in addition to what you have just added, I mean, I believe his name was Nicholas Reiter. And he had analyzed that material years ago and found absolutely nothing abnormal about it. And I believe the the website that you can see this is UFO Watchdog. And it’s been published for years and years. I mean, it ties into what was called Art’s Parts. And so there’s a lot of evidence to support that there’s nothing to the specific piece that they are showing. And that’s also kind of another head scratcher, is…in two years…add in Mr. Elizondo allegedly headed this program, all the years that he headed it. Which allegedly was, you know, what, seven, seven years or so, if you follow his timeline. In all of those years, with all of the people involved, they cannot find anything else that warrants a press release instead of something that was essentially debunked in the 1990s? That doesn’t make sense.

JC: That’s right. I find it confusing. Well, and this is the other part. If you really wanna make sense out of everything, you do this: If you are BAASS, if you are Bigelow, and you’ve got a warehouse in Las Vegas with ET crashed items in it, right? From from retrievals and stuff. If you have that, then you go public. You have the biggest press conference. You and TTSA. You lay out the stuff on the front of a table. You get out in front of the media and then you sell all the stock that you can handle. (laughs) That’s what you do! And they haven’t done that. Because they can’t. And I will, I will, I will preach that till the cows come home. You know, because if you, John, if you were in possession of a piece of an alien craft…you, John Greenewald, that is on The Black Vault. You go public with it. You are the most famous man in history. In fact, they start a religion based on you. That’s what they would do! And the fact that they haven’t gone that far with it is because they can’t. And I’ll call ’em on it. That’s it. Go public or not. That’s it.

JG: Yeah, I wanna go back to one thing really quick just because I fact checked it while we were at the break. The Luis Elizondo description? I looked up how they first published it in 2017 on the Wayback Machine. And it said, “For nearly the last decade, Luis also ran a sensitive aerospace threat identification program focusing on unidentified aerial technologies.” So again, they said he ran it. Today, if you were to go to the website, they call them the program element manager. So, you know, that could just be different phrasing. I’m not real sure. But just to kind of fact check so your listeners have exactly what we were talking about. That’s the difference. So when they launched the website, they said he ran it, now he is called the Program Element Manager.

JC: On this program, a few weeks ago, Grant Cameron was on and he made a very interesting point. And I wanna run this by you and get your thoughts on this. He said that TTSA is putting it out there, all screwed up, on purpose, because it’s for funding from Congress because they can’t, you know, get access to money. And this is their way of…and I’m talking about the United States Navy and the way that all of this has been pushed through, all the way to President Trump. This is a way to start to get funding, probably back to Bigelow. And, of course, sell stock for TTSA. That this is the methodology for that. What do you think about that kind of assessment?

JG: To me that that’s kind of a stretch. I mean, I do believe that there is a Bigelow angle with the money that stretches back to Harry Reid. The connection with, you know, Reid being the Senate Majority Leader…Senator from Nevada. Bigelow is headquartered in Nevada. That’s not popular to say and you’ve said it a couple times. Sometimes it’s tough to talk about it. But we need to look at it, you know. I mean, we need to understand where that money is. Now, fast forward. In 2009, when that Senator Harry Reid letter that I’ve mentioned a couple times, it aimed to save this program: the AAWSAP/AATIP program or programs, depending upon who you listen to. But it aimed to save it. Why would a U.S. Senator, other than if he was, you know, maybe he was just genuinely passionate, and that’s fine. But why would he really get that invested, other than Bigelow was a big investor in him and a donor. So he was, you know, essentially doing the favor to continue that money. And 2009 was a key year, because that’s when they decided to essentially say, this is not producing anything worthwhile. I do have that in an official statement. The DIA says we don’t want it anymore. And that’s when it transferred over to you know, OSD.

Now fast forward. What is Bigelow’s connection now? In the last year and a half plus, close to two years, since TTSA has come around and AATIP surfaced and Bigelow’s name’s been thrown around in the New York Times and all this stuff, who has been the most silent? And that’s Bigelow Aerospace. Like, I don’t think that they have talked about this at all. I mean, there’s not anything off the top of my head anyway. So if I’m wrong on that, I’m sure someone will point it out, But they have been mysteriously quiet.

JC: Since since “60 Minutes,” actually.

JG: Which was quite a few years ago, right?

JC: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

JG: So the question is why. Like, for me, and I’ll use a prime example: Raytheon had published a press release article that touted one of the videos. I forget which [of the] three. But one of the, you know, videos that TTSA released. And kind of touted that it was their equipment that filmed that, right? So they kind of latched on to the hype to publicize their own corporation. I don’t fault them for that. That’s fine. You know, all the more power to them. But that shows you the corporate mentality that it’s like, hey, if we can get some publicity out of this, let’s do it. So you have to ask yourself, why wouldn’t Bigelow Aerospace? Why wouldn’t they come aboard and say, “Yeah, you know what? We saw this. We support…there should be further research.” There’s nothing about classification clearances, any violations, nothing for a corporation to say an opinion. And to back a…either public benefit corporation or advocate for additional programs, whether or not they try and you know, get that money themselves, whatever. But there’s nothing wrong with that.

And yet they’ve stayed quiet. And that’s always been intriguing to me, because again, you would wanna ride that gravy train. Get more attention to Bigelow Aerospace, just like Raytheon did. Hey, this is the technology that we created. We see aliens. Though they didn’t say that. I’m obviously being facetious. But, you know, it’s like they’re latching on to that momentum. There’s no reason that I can think of that Bigelow Aerospace would not and get their name out there and get a little bit of attention for himself. There’s nothing even wrong with that. I’m not saying that would do be anything bad. So why have they been quiet? And that…I don’t have an answer to. I have reached out to Bigelow Aerospace and their PR department. Never received a response. I called and emailed, just for anybody who’s taken notes. And so they ignored all requests for comments on anything. So there’s…and again, not that I’m anyone. But my point with that is generally, you know, you might have a standard response or a copy and paste or…that you would send out to anybody who’s asking. And it just seems like they don’t want anything to do with this, here close to two years later. And I think that there’s there’s something to that. I don’t know what it is, but I think we need to ask.

JC: Any word on the ratings of “Unidentified.” How well did it go at the beginning? And at the end of the season? Do you know?

JG: From what I understood from the ratings, it had dipped by the finale, which is never a good sign. But I’m not gonna lie to you and say I know all the figures and how it went from Episode One to Episode, whatever the last one was. Six. But I do know that from what I understand, from what I read, they did not break the million mark or the point mark on that finale, which is not necessarily a good sign. It dipped from the week prior, from what I understand. So again, that’s that’s never a good sign.

JC: It’s not a good time that it dipped, but that is a pretty…if they got close to that. I don’t know if they’ve got into “Ancient Aliens” territory as far as numbers go. But wouldn’t that signal a Season Two? And the reason why I asked that question…back with Hangar One, during our second season, we had really, really, really strong numbers. And there were reports that a couple of those Fridays, we had bigger numbers than “Ancient Aliens.” But we didn’t get picked up for a Season Three.

Yeah, networks are finicky and I’m not gonna pick on UFO-related programs by saying this or “Unidentified” directly. They’re just finicky with what they look at and how they analyze and what did you pull, in what time slot? And going up against “Ancient Aliens,” back to back Did you hold the audience? And I know that there was some talk that during some of the episodes, they were able to retain the audience but i don’t i don’t believe they ever beat them but don’t quote me on that as gospel. But I never heard that they had risen above that level. So what, you know, if they got a Season Two would it surprised me? No. I mean, a lot of UFO shows get a Season Two. I mean they get good ratings. UFOs get clicks, hits and ratings. We all know that. And it plays into a role in what we are seeing on television and what we’re reading in the media.

But again, I go back to that pink elephant in the room, that regardless of if that Pentagon statement is true or not, they need to address it. Because the host of their show, the star of their show, what they surrounded the entire series around…the United States government went on the record and said, “That’s not true.” Now, to be honest with you, that’s fairly unprecedented as well. It’s very rare, unless they have to, where they start taking shots at people by name. And generally they just leave well enough alone. You know, these government whistleblowers that come out with crazy claims, and the Pentagon doesn’t issue statements on them. A lot of people find like truth in that and they go, “Aha, the Pentagon can’t refute it.” No, I mean, it’s general standard practice that they just don’t address it. So it’s very interesting that they did with Luis Elizondo. And I did wrestle for a little bit thinking, wow, are they trying to ruin his credibility? Are they taking a shot at him in the respect that they want to harm his credibility and make him look like someone that he’s not? And all of that is untrue? And I just don’t see any evidence of that. Meaning there’s no one that has come out, other than his essentially business partner, Dr. Puthoff, that has vouched that he was in the Pentagon, running this program.

Now for any company, even government work, AATIP, AAWSAP, according to Senator Harry Reid, were not highly classified programs. In fact, to quote Harry Reid, 80% of it is unclassified. So to think that they’re just deep dark secret, you know, CIA agents with top secret clearances, and they’re not gonna blow their cover to vouch for Luis Elizondo, I just don’t buy that. That’s not what this program was. People have argued…well, PR officers are often wrong. You know, that they don’t know. Well, if they took the time to look, the press officer who issued the statement, actually went on the record and said that he spoke to OUSDI, which is the acronym for the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence. Other OUSDI leadership within that organization, that some of which actually worked at the time that Mr. Elizondo was at OUSDI, that part was not disputed. And they confirmed he did not run that program. So it’s not just what…a lot of people are banking, like, well, PR press officers, they don’t know anything. Well, that’s not what this press officer based a statement off of.

So to go back to the point, I mean, A&E Networks has a lot to answer for if they put him on television again, and say this is the guy that ran the quote unquote, “top secret Pentagon UFO program.” Which, by the way, that’s all, you know, fluff and creative license. There’s no there’s no proof that this was a top secret program. It had classified aspects. But if you believe Harry Reid, 80% of it was unclassified.

JC: What do you…how do you address those out there that say that
you’re wrong and you’re picking on Elizondo because it’s personal. And you’ve lost sight of objectivity.

JG: Yeah, how do I respond to that? I mean, I question myself all the time and have I made this personal. And to be honest with you, I haven’t. The reason is, is I tried…what people will disagree with me. But I tried to help fix it. Because again, I look at the bigger picture and in the bigger picture, mark my words, this will be more damaging than all else. I do not believe in the long run, this is going to help the UFO community. So I did genuinely try and help. But to be honest with you, you have to look at this objectively with common sense and logic. Take me out of the equation. Just look at it. Start to look at his words. Don’t listen to mine. Look at his and look at how he contradicts himself. Look at – you pointed out also – those tough questions.

Now TTSA as a whole, not only Elizondo, those tough questions that should be answered and addressed. They should embrace them and squash them…squash the concerns. Answer the questions. And yet they do not. They do not want to engage anything that is challenging. Most of the interviews that take place with…well that used to take place with Mr. Elizondo or whomever, are largely softball questions. I mean, they just are. You can’t argue that. Nobody is challenging him. I wanna give credit to Martin Willis. He’s the only one that I know of that  got Elizondo on a show and directly asked him about the Pentagon statement. And so, so kudos to him because he had the opportunity and he took it. And he did it. I would have pressed him after his answer. And his answer was…everybody’s entitled to an opinion. Now, that’s like the…he went on for a couple minutes. And to be blatantly honest with you, he didn’t really have a formulated answer.

However, the only thing that he really said of substance was everyone’s entitled to an opinion. Meaning the PR officer at the Pentagon, who talked with Mr. Elizondo’s former colleagues. Apparently, this is just an opinion, you know? And I laugh at that, because to me, I would have pressed that. I think you would have, to0. And I’m not harping on Martin with saying he didn’t. He only had like 10 minutes. So he had to just move on. He’s not gonna just grill and interrogate the guy. So I don’t fault him for not pressing him. But I think that he needs to be pressed on that. I think that if he would have come out with something of substance, then we can get beyond it. We can then challenge the Pentagon. And a lot of people that would say you’re making this personal and you’re picking on Elizondo, are generally the same people that say, you’re the guy that says the Pentagon has lied about UFOs and cover up. And you’re right. I absolutely have. However, to prove that cover up and to prove those lies, I worked darn hard for years, and I have evidence to prove it. So just because the Pentagon lied once or twice, or arguably, however many times you want to say, doesn’t mean that they lie 100% of the time. And if you fall into that category of just believing everything is a lie that comes out of the Pentagon,  it’s a very dangerous place to be. Especially if you say that you’re a journalist. You have to challenge it. I fully support that. But you need evidence to start saying that they are lying to you.

And so people often attack me and say, you know, that I am making this personal and I’m picking on Elizondo. No, I honestly, I am not. Because I’ve challenged myself many times over, on that very question, to try and make sure that I’m not getting personally involved or emotionally involved or take things personally. And I’m not. And the reason why…because I guarantee I’ll get letters saying, yes you are. But the reason I know it, is you can take me out of the equation. Do not listen to me. However, all I ask of you is listen to Mr. Elizondo. Listen to Dr. Puthoff. Start putting those statements together with the media and look at how they contradict each other. And that’s how I know that I’m not taking this personally or I’m trying to make up stuff because they themselves have dug themselves into this hole not me.

JC: I’m gonna read something to you. This was December 29, 2017.
This was a Friday, and I was on my way to Coast to Coast AM…I was hosting that night. And I was talking to DeLonge on the phone. And we had a couple of conversations that evening. And he said he said, “Hold on man. I’m gonna text you a statement to read on the air tonight.” And it was New Year’s Eve weekend, right? It’s, you know, it’s four days after Christmas. Holidays and all that stuff. So he he sent me this statement from Tom DeLonge. And he says, “I’d like to thank you. I’d like to say, for all of your support, I want to thank you. And as you know, I created a vehicle that my team was able to supercharge and get the Pentagon to officially acknowledge the existence of unidentified aerial phenomena. Senator Harry Reid, the former Majority Leader, went on the record as well. Congress has ignited and briefings will be starting soon, if all goes well. So bear with me as we start talking about more gun camera footage, hardware and even more expansive military encounters. It’s all coming. But it’s going to trickle out over the months ahead. I want to thank you all again. I’m one of you. I’m a truth seeker. Signed Tom DeLonge, 12/29/2017.”

And today, they have chosen to ignore and don’t care about the UFO community. Back then, he was trying to get the UFO community via Coast To Coast and myself included, to get behind what TTSA was doing. And if you remember, in December of 2017, all hell broke loose, right? Yeah. And and what…looking at that statement that he had me reading…I read this on the air that night on Coast To Coast and where we are today, almost two years later, nothing has really developed, right? Nothing has really gone past what happened in December, which was the videos, Fravor, you know, the gun camera footage. And here we are today…everything that he talks about here didn’t happen. Which was the UFO community, more stuff… everything was going to trickle out over the months ahead. And two years later, we’re still in the same position except for “Unidentified.”

JG: Yeah, and I think that people are catching on to that. And I’ve never I’ve never heard that they – Grant Cameron I believe was the one that first started talking about this – confirm that TTSA wanted to quote unquote “divorce the UFO community.” Because I guarantee that the majority of the 1.2 million that came in were from people that technically are part of the UFO community. And I think that by him reaching out to you, they were fundraising at that time. You know, they’re looking for investors. And so to give that kind of aura that hey, we want you. We’re one of you. We’re one of you…was beneficial to do. And I think that after that, promises started to fall flat. I believe it was sometime this year that Mr. Elizondo had said last year. So it was, again, he said, last year, one year from now, meaning this year, we’re gonna have a fundamentally different conversation. And we, ironically, it was about a year when the Pentagon issued that statement. So he was kind of right. But regardless, what is fundamentally changed, you know?

I mean, the media is starting to turn. They just are. The momentum on UFO stories, has definitely decreased from that December 2017, into the beginning part of January 2018. We can all agree on that. The TTSA hoorah articles are not really around anymore. The UFO articles that do surface, which some of them are very interesting, like the UFO guidelines. I’m curious to know a little bit more. Those emails were very telling. I think that that was largely embellished. But hat being said, there are certain things that are happening, but is TTSA to thank for that? Or is the media largely painting that picture? Because again, the UFO guidelines and all that stuff,…the Navy went on the record to say that was a reissue, slightly edited…the reissue of a 2015 guideline that was published after the Roosevelt. By the way I did try and get those. They are considered classified. They won’t give them to me. So that being said, what, like how, what role did TTSA play in 2015? None. So did they play a role in the re-issue of it? Well, the only evidence we have of it is TTSA taking credit for it.
So there’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense.

JC: I’ve only got 30 seconds left. John, I want to thank you in advance for coming on tonight. Thank you so much. Did Elizondo take part in the briefing of the Senate or Congress?

JG: I don’t have an answer to that. I do not believe so. But I don’t have a definitive answer.

JC: Yeah, I wanna find that out, too, Somebody out there. Fadernauts.  Find out about that. I wanna know who actually did the briefings. There you go. John, thank you so much. Go back to your family…just for taking the time tonight and enjoy the rest of your evening and we’ll talk first thing tomorrow. Thank you so much.

JG: I appreciate it. Thanks for the time.

JC: You’re the best. Thank you, John. It’s theblackvault.com that’s all you gotta do: The Black Vault. It’s right there.

I’m your host Jimmy Church.

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