June 7th, 2019 – Notes from the Alejandro Rojas (AR) interview with Luis Elizondo (LE), the former head of AATIP. Also known as the Pentagon’s UFO program.
From Open Minds UFO Radio
AR: Did you have an influence with the Navy changing their policy on reporting of UFOs by servicemen and servicewomen?
LE: Yes. It was a team effort. Resigned from Pentagon in 2017 and joined TTSA because the overwhelming evidence (classified and unclassified) shows that UFOs/UAPs are real. They exist. Honor and privilege to join TTSA and work with Chris Mellon, Tom DeLonge, Hal Puthoff, Steve Justice and Jim Semivan. He knew them when he worked for the government. Knew them as serious, no nonsense individuals. When you have a chance to join a team like that, you take it. Everybody has their own specialty and specific skill set and you’ll see that in the show.
Mellon understands the government bureaucracy like nobody else. He knows how to swim through it like a shark. Nobody understands how governments operate (and don’t operate) like Mellon. He was instrumental in getting this information to the forefront of elected officials.
DeLonge is the bullhorn you sometimes need in order get the attention of folks in a crowded room. Very creative. There’s the phrase a bull in a china shop. DeLonge is like a hand grenade in a china shop. But sometimes to fix something, you need to break a little china.
Hal Puthoff and Steve Justice add a tremendous amount of scientific credibility.
AR: A few of the pilots from the 2014-2015 USS Roosevelt UFO incidents speak out about their experiences in a future episode of “Unidentified.” They’re both on active duty. So, did they have to get permission to speak?
LE: Yes. Or, “Roger that.” In Navy, you don’t come out in public unless you have permission from your public affairs office. LE not aware of any other incidents where the government has allowed their active duty members to speak on television or to Congress about UAPs/UFOs. And History Channel was able to document various aspects of it on camera as it unfolded. Praises History for their approach to the show. It’s not a reality show. It’s a show about reality. Producers have background in organized crime and trafficking. Some of the camera folks have experience videotaping U.S. troops under fire in combat zones. Thinks it’s a groundbreaking program.
Navy realized that LE and company weren’t trying to do a UFO hunting show so that helped. Just want to know the truth about what’s out there.
AR: Why has the DoD not been as forthcoming and cooperative as the Navy? They’ve had to correct themselves a few times and admit that you was right.
LE: Government bureaucracy is large and complex. Wouldn’t be surprised if, in the near future, they amend their statement again. New people are hired and we should give them a chance to catch up. (Joe’s note: As far as amending their statement, I heard the same thing earlier this week from researcher Paul Dean and Politico reporter, Bryan Bender)
AR: What do you think of the conspiracy folks who say that the New York Times, TTSA and some “hidden hand” are guiding this investigation and are part of a conspiracy to release information?
LE: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Not everybody likes what TTSA is doing. Especially when UFOs are involved. People will try to poke holes in the story. This is a conversation for the American people to have. Some people will assume false narratives. At the end of the day, the data will speak for itself and people can make their own decision. One day, they’ll realize that this is going down absolutely like the NYT and Politico have reported.
AR: Tyler Rogoway wrote that Delonge was part of a government UFO operation. Does TTSA decide where the investigation will lead or does the government?
LE: We decide but it’s a collaborative effort. To get cooperation of the Navy, you need to work well with elements within the U.S. government. Not a conspiracy where we’re pushing a narrative of one group individuals. But if you want cooperation of the government, you have to work with the government. Doesn’t think that’s a bad thing. Is TTSA being influenced by the government? Absolutely not. That’s nonsense. But TTSA will continue to work well with the government. Why wouldn’t they? They wouldn’t have gotten those three videos released if they had not. It’s in their best interest to work with them.
AR: Rojas brings up the F word: David Fravor and how he has been casting doubt on the other witnesses who were featured in “The Nimitz Encounters,” like Kevin Day. Do you vouch for Kevin Day’s testimony?
LE: I vouch for both (Fravor and Day). Every eyewitness views an accident from a slightly different angle. That’s how you put the piece of the puzzle together. It’s a bunch of pieces. You put all of the pieces together and to get clear picture of what happened. It’s like three blind men trying to describe an elephant. All describe something completely different and yet it’s the same thing.
Going into “exact quote mode” for this part…
LE: “Fravor was on the USS Nimitz and he was one of the pilots to actually engaged this thing up close and personal and actually be an eyewitness. But that was a brief moment in time. Let’s look at Kevin Day. He was on board the USS Princeton. Not the Nimitz. He was on the ship that’s actually designed to look at the combat environment, so to speak, with radar. And so what Kevin Day was able to see was certainly a much larger, comprehensive picture than what you have with Fravor.
“Fravor is an aggressive, rare breed of pilots. As I’ve said before, he’s one of the few people that actually chases down danger. Doesn’t run away from it. They actually run towards it. And you want those guys as your fighter pilots. That’s exactly who you want, you know, winning wars on your behalf. Kevin Day is also a graduate of Top Gun, just like Commander Fravor was. And he is one of the most highly trained individuals on the planet regarding the SPY-1 radar. So, he was on that ship for days and days and days, tracking these things.
“So, in essence what you have here I think are both…I think where the rub comes, where the frustration comes with Dave Fravor is…Dave Fravor is a fighter pilot. I mean, that is…he has been born and bred to do that. And so, if he feels that something or someone, for some reason, is not…the information is not consistent with what he’s seen, he’s gonna do what he does. And basically, that’s, basically call attention to it and say look, I disagree with that. But at the end of the day, I think when you look at this, you realize that, that both are…at least from my perspective – and others that were in the government with me – that actually, both are telling the truth, from their perspectives. It’s both accurate information. Neither one is wrong.”
AR: Will “Unidentified” cover the Rendlesham Forest incident and what about the report in the NYT that AATIP studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with UFOs?
LE: Watch the episode. You’ll see “a comprehensive picture of the effects on our men and women in uniform that this phenomenon has. That may include even medical effects.”
AR: Will we see results from the ADAM project in the show?
LE: I suspect so. History doesn’t allow LE to watch the episodes before they air. They want to preserve the integrity of the show. So, he doesn’t know what made it into each show.
AR: Fravor and Bob Lazar hung out together in Oregon and have kind of become buddies. Have you comes across crash retrieval programs? Or, our government studying materials like ADAM does?
LE: Our government has an entire capability within our intelligence community that studies material. Whether it’s material from a foreign military technology or anything else. Always trying to figure out what something is. “As far as specifically confirming whether or not we have a collection capability for the study of UAP? I am going to politely decline from answering that question. I’m no longer in the U.S. government and so therefore, for me answering on behalf of the U.S. government, would I think, would not be in good faith. Now I did say, for the record, when I was asked on a recent interview by Tucker Carlson, do I believe that their…material exists? I absolutely stand by that statement. But I, unfortunately, I don’t think I can elaborate more on that.”
AR: “To clarify, you believe that likely does exist but it’s not like something you can prove?”
LE: “Umm, I didn’t say that. I just am going to probably, politely deflect that question. But I will say, though, the first part of your question about Mr. Lazar and Mr. Fravor…I’ve never met Mr. Lazar and to be honest with you, I don’t have an opinion either way. When I was running AATIP, I deliberately avoided knowing – and this probably rubs people the wrong way – but I did not study UFOlogy and UFOlogists and, if you will, the current personalities that are involved in it.” He did that so he would remain fair and objective when looking at the data. Even subconsciously. He sticks to the data.
AR: Rumors that you’ve reached out to Lockheed and Boeing. Did that happen?
LE: We’re always looking for partnerships and capabilities. Those partnerships are sometimes sensitive and we have to be mindful of that. Other times, not so sensitive. Always looking for opportunities to partner. It could wind up saving them money if somebody else knows how to do something that TTSA does not. Make business sense to do that.
AR: You have former Lockheed executive, Steve Justice, on board and DeLonge has spoken with another Lockheed executive in the past.
LE: Why not get the best in the aerospace industry to work with you?
AR: Was there any information about there was an object under water in the Tic Tac incident?
LE: Information evolves over time. Some witnesses who didn’t want to speak early on in an investigation, decide later to share their story. (I think this is a reference to Gary Voorhis and maybe some other witnesses who we haven’t heard from before? ~Joe) In other cases, there have been reports of UFOs operating underwater. These objects can perform trans-medium travel.
AR: What do you think of the “Ancient Aliens” theory?
LE: I really don’t. People are entitled to their opinions. Never be afraid of ideas. We should be afraid of the lack of ideas. “I’d rather not have an answer to a question than not be able to question the answer.”